ICANN Public Meeting Transcript 

Meeting Held in Cambridge, Massachusetts
Saturday, November 14, 9:00 am - 4:00 pm

Contact Information    Archive    Main ICANN site 
Introduction    Open Comments    Representation    Supporting Organizations    Transparency

                                                         Volume:     I   
                                                         Pages:    251

                   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                   INTERNET CORPORATION for      *
                   ASSIGNED NAMES AND NUMBERS    *
                   FACT-FINDING MISSION          *
                   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

                              DATE:     November 14, 1998

                              TIME:     9:14 a.m.

                              HELD AT:  Cambridge Marriott
                                        Two Cambridge Center
                                        Cambridge, Massachusetts  02142

                                        O'BRIEN & LEVINE
                                    COURT REPORTING SERVICES
                                    1287 Commonwealth Avenue
                                  Boston, Massachusetts  02134
                                    Telephone (617) 254-2909


                                      A P P E A R A N C E S

                      MEMBERS OF THE BOARD:

                      Hans Kraaijgnbrink

                      Eugenio Triana

                      Esther Dyson

                      Greg Crew

                      George Conrades

                      Frank Fitzsimmons

                      Michael Roberts

                      Linda Wilson

                      ALSO PRESENT

                      Jonathan Zittrain, Moderator

                      Charles Nesson

                      Molly Shaffer Van Houweling, Senior Assistant
                      to the President and CEO
                      Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and

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             1                       P R O C E E D I N G S


             3                 MR. ZITTRAIN:  Good morning.  My name

             4      is Jonathan Zittrain.  Along with Charlie Nesson,

             5      I run the Berkman Center for Internet Society at

             6      Harvard Law School.  We're helping ICANN facility

             7      with their meeting here today, and we'll start

             8      with an administrative announcement.  You'll see

             9      on the agendas provided in the convenient keepsake

            10      briefing booklets that came with your

            11      registrations, at 9:45, there's an open comment

            12      period with two-minute slots.

            13                 And as you'll see, there are two

            14      microphones strategically positioned in the middle

            15      of the room.  To prevent a mobbing of the mike or

            16      an unjust result where whoever gets there first

            17      actually gets there first, we have a box about to

            18      go around.  Into the box, you can place -- you may

            19      have in your book , or if you don't have in your

            20      book or you don't have a book, it will be outside,

            21      a little card that says, "Yes, I want to speak

            22      during the two-minute comment period."  You can

            23      drop that card, with your name on it, preferably,

            24      into the box.  The box -- you can also put money

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             1      into the box, but that's not required; there's no

             2      relationship with whether you'll be able to speak. 

             3      You put the card into the box, the box works its

             4      way up to the front of the room.  The designated

             5      federal marshal then draws names out of the box. 

             6      And in fact, I think we have people on deck, so

             7      it's not like the Price is Right; you'll know a

             8      little bit ahead of time when your time at the mic

             9      is to come.  You can then come to the mic and

            10      speak.  It seemed a more equitable way than just

            11      having the kind of whoever-can-elbow-their-way-

            12      there-first method of mic talking.

            13                 So with that said, the box should be

            14      going around.  Please put that in.  The scribe

            15      will put this instruction up so it need not be

            16      repeated multiple times.  And with that, let me

            17      turn it over to Ms. Esther Dyson.  Thank you.

            18                 MS. DYSON:  Good morning.  This is --

            19      first of all, I'd like to welcome all of you here

            20      to the first of many public open meetings with the

            21      Board of ICANN, the Internet Corporation for

            22      Assigned Names and Numbers.  And I'm going to give

            23      you a little outline of what we're trying to

            24      accomplish today, then I'm going to talk a little

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             1      bit about where ICANN is now and what we are going

             2      to be trying to do over the next few weeks, few

             3      months and year or two.

             4                 Then the Board, with my gentle

             5      moderation, will introduce themselves to you.  The

             6      goal, in part, is for you to see who these people

             7      are, why we were -- why we believe we were picked,

             8      what we bring to the party, what we see as the

             9      challenges we've got here.

            10                 Then Charlie Nesson, who's going to be

            11      moderating the rest of the day, is going to

            12      explain in some more detail the specifics of how

            13      it's going to work, and he will lead you through

            14      the rest of the agenda, the questions and the

            15      issues we're going to consider.

            16                 There are really three goals here for

            17      this day.  The first is, indeed, to hear -- we

            18      have a lot of questions we need to decide.  We're

            19      going to face a lot of specific issues, including

            20      both decisions we have to make and decisions about

            21      the very structure of the Board and the

            22      organization going forward.  And we're here not to

            23      judge and not to make decisions, but to collect

            24      input in a way that's more useful than just

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             1      comments.  What we're going to try and do is

             2      actually foster some discussion.

             3                 In some sense, almost any question is

             4      legitimate.  What do we need to constrain our

             5      powers, is a legitimate question.  What are the

             6      costs of those mechanisms for constraining our

             7      powers, is another legitimate question.

             8                 There are a lot of trade-offs here, and

             9      one problem with general comments is, frequently

            10      they deal with only one-sided, each question. 

            11      What we're going to try and do is bring up both

            12      sides or as many sides as there may be of many of

            13      these questions regarding, specifically, our

            14      membership structure, the structure and

            15      qualifications and the procedures for doing the

            16      supporting organizations and these accountability

            17      mechanisms that we're also (inaudible) inputs.

            18                 We will, most of us Board, stay here

            19      after 4:00 p.m., but there's a hard close at 4:00

            20      so that some people who need to go to Monterey can

            21      leave here on time.  But we wanted to meet with

            22      you in this open, public way and get to talk to

            23      you, hear you, have you ask us questions in the

            24      corridors during the breaks, whatever.  We're all

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             1      going to have to work together, and so I think it

             2      would be really helpful for us to know one another

             3      as individuals.

             4                 Now, let me talk a little bit -- and

             5      this section here, for what it's worth, is

             6      probably the only one that's going to be straight

             7      talking by one person.  We're going to be fairly

             8      quickly into interaction.  I'm going to, in some

             9      sense, do my self-introduction now.  I won't be

            10      part of the introduction of the Board later.

            11                 I came to this as someone who had --

            12      obviously being aware that there was a lot of

            13      commotion going on about the demanding question, I

            14      didn't think of -- to be honest, I wasn't thinking

            15      very hard about protocols or assigned numbers.  I

            16      even wrote about it in my book and decided that I

            17      -- there was no way I could figure out what was

            18      really happening, there was no way that anything I

            19      wrote would actually stand up in the four months

            20      it took for the book to be printed, so I kind of

            21      glossed over it lightly.

            22                 Then this summer, there was a

            23      conference in Aspen -- it was not the Aspen

            24      Institute, I think it was part of the Computer

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             1      Foundation -- said, well, you know, they'll need a

             2      board for this thing.  If someone asks you to do

             3      that, would you want to do it?  And I said, well,

             4      obviously I'd need to know more of what was

             5      involved, but sure, it sounds like something that

             6      would be fun, I could learn a lot.  And that was

             7      that.  I kept reading stuff about this in the

             8      press, wondered if I was going to get this

             9      marvelous call.

            10                 Then I got an E-mail from somebody

            11      called Joe Sims, who I'd never heard of.  And I

            12      thought, well, I should be polite and answer this,

            13      but maybe it's a hoax.  So I sent an E-mail to

            14      Roger Cacheti saying somebody called Joe Sims is

            15      sending me this E-mail; is it for real?  And it

            16      turned out it was, so I sent the E-mail back and

            17      said yes, I'd be very interested in -- I don't

            18      know whether I said yes right away or tell me

            19      more, but anyway, ultimately I said yes.

            20                 So what you -- what we are, in some

            21      sense, is people primarily picked to be

            22      interested, with not enough history to know

            23      enough, unfortunately, but with not enough history

            24      to be biased or perceived to be captured in some

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             1      sense, coming in here, trying to learn as much as

             2      we can quickly so that we can act as quickly as

             3      possible, but not hastily.  And as I said earlier,

             4      this is really an opportunity for us to learn from

             5      you, unfiltered, except by other people.  I mean,

             6      the goal is to have this kind of cross-current of

             7      discussion rather than a series of comments and

             8      see you, among yourselves, consider some of these

             9      questions that we face.

            10                 Now, ICANN is in a position of being

            11      almost ready to get its authority from the United

            12      States government, but it's going to have to get

            13      its legitimacy from a much broader population. 

            14      It's going to have to get its legitimacy just the

            15      way the original IANA and the original group

            16      server system did, by people using it -- thank

            17      you.  And if anybody can't hear in the back, raise

            18      your hand.  Sorry about this.  It's going to have

            19      to get its legitimacy by people acknowledging its

            20      legitimacy.  We're well aware of that, and we're

            21      trying to construct a system that will do this.

            22                 One thing I bring to this particular

            23      party is a lot of history in Russian and central

            24      and eastern Europe.  They have gone through, as

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             1      you know, a long and, in some cases, painful

             2      process of privatization.  In some sense, this is

             3      what we need to do with ICANN.  We need to take a

             4      system that ran on procedures that were fairly

             5      predictable -- if you had a question or a dispute,

             6      you went to John Costello and it got resolved, and

             7      everybody acknowledged that authority and it

             8      worked fine.  But we're now moving to a system

             9      that needs to be larger, it needs to scale up, it

            10      needs to be broader-based, it needs to be

            11      international and it needs to be transparent and

            12      seen to be fair.

            13                 But the question is, how do you make

            14      that transition from one set of rules and

            15      procedures where people had stakes in a system

            16      that they felt they could rely on to a new set of

            17      rules and procedures not everybody inevitably is

            18      going to be entirely happy with the consequences. 

            19      But we want to do it in a way that is fair and

            20      that is seen to be fair so that, again, we will

            21      win legitimacy as well as just authority to do

            22      this.

            23                 Now, it reminds me of when I first went

            24      to Russia.  It was May of 1989.  Everybody was

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             1      extremely happy.  It was clear that within a year,

             2      there would be democracy and a free market and

             3      prosperity in Russia.  And one Russian said to me,

             4      "This is great.  Our government is going to set

             5      free market prices just like yours."  And we are

             6      not in a situation where the government is going

             7      to set, so to speak, legitimacy.  We need to

             8      create a system, just like a market, that creates

             9      legitimacy.  And that is -- we would like a market

            10      for ideas, a market for how this should be

            11      structured and a bottom-up consensus to what are

            12      appropriate rules for this organization to have.

            13                 So we're now right at the beginning,

            14      and we are going to be working hard not to

            15      construct a system.  That's what the Soviets did;

            16      they constructed a system that worked for a while,

            17      but it was not adaptive and it fell apart.  And

            18      what we're trying to do is build something that's

            19      much more organic, that has within it learning

            20      mechanisms, that has feedback groups, that has

            21      checks and balances, it's organic.  And that is

            22      what we would like to do with you here today.

            23                 Now, I'd like to ask two questions of

            24      the audience, and then I'm going to do the Board's

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             1      self-introduction.  And the first is simply, how

             2      many of you come from Boston?

             3                 (Responses)

             4                 MS. DYSON:  Okay.  How many from the

             5      U.S.?

             6                 (Responses)

             7                 MS. DYSON:  And how many came from

             8      outside the U.S., including Canada, which we

             9      acknowledge is a sovereign territory?

            10                 (Responses)

            11                 MS. DYSON:  One thing I really want to

            12      do here today, we have a serious task, we want to

            13      come to a consensus, but I also hope we can have

            14      fun.  You know, this should not be either boring

            15      or painful.  It should be passionate and intense. 

            16      But what we're trying to do here is actually

            17      exciting.  We're trying to build something new

            18      that will then grow beyond us.  This initial Board

            19      especially, we, by fiat, have to resign when our

            20      work is done.  We have to create something that

            21      will not be based on our own personalities, but

            22      that will have within it the checks and balances,

            23      responsiveness, the decision-making mechanisms

            24      that will enable it to work effectively after we

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             1      are gone.

             2                 And so the second question is, how many

             3      of you are basically expecting to see a broadly-

             4      acknowledged consensus here today?

             5                 (Responses)

             6                 MS. DYSON:  How many of you are

             7      hopeful, but sort of tentative or dubious, but you

             8      would really like to see this thing work out?

             9                 (Responses)

            10                 MS. DYSON:  Okay, well, that's really

            11      encouraging.  And how many of you just think the

            12      thing as an out-and-out fraud and you're here to

            13      try and stop it?

            14                 AUDIENCE:  Can you separate those two

            15      questions, please?

            16                 MS. DYSON:  Thank you.  Okay.  Let's

            17      start with the Board introduction.  Now, the way I

            18      want to do this is ask each of the Board members

            19      to spend about two to three minutes, you know,

            20      including why you're here, what motivated you to

            21      do this, what are you trying to get out of this

            22      day.  And let's start with Eugenio Triana, please.

            23                 MR. TRIANA:  Thank you, yes, good

            24      morning, my name is Eugenio Triana.  I am an

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             1      industrial engineer and currently a consultant on

             2      telecommunication regulations and Internet

             3      property rights, licensing, etcetera.  I've been

             4      engaged for my life in the industry and

             5      telecommunications and some short time in the

             6      Spanish government.  The last position I had was

             7      in the European Commission in Brussels as deputy

             8      director general in charge of telecommunication

             9      policies.  My name is on the round table on

            10      Internet users in Europe and many other worldwide

            11      users of the Internet, but the most I contribute

            12      to this splendid product in (inaudible) and I am

            13      very happy with the transcriptions permitting us

            14      to read the Board of Directors speeches.  I am

            15      considered -- people consider myself as a moderate

            16      person.  Maybe that is one of the reasons to the

            17      inclusion of my name.  I was elected to reach the

            18      consensus, to (inaudible) the consensus, you can

            19      say, and that is the way we are considered now, I

            20      consider.  On the other hand, of course I am

            21      contributing, I have contributed to the

            22      understanding between Europe and United States to

            23      have a vision in relation to the -- to understand

            24      it is necessary to create a U.S. incorporated

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             1      entity.  Among the Europeans, as you know, at the

             2      beginning there was some research about that, and

             3      to understand the necessary transitional period to

             4      go from the current situation to the normal one

             5      open to competition.  And to be asked onto this

             6      Board for me has been a very, very honor to be

             7      proposed by Joe Sims.  Thank you.

             8                 MS. DYSON:  Do you feel you represent

             9      any particular group or interest or position other

            10      than being here on the Board?

            11                 MR. TRIANA:  I am representing, I

            12      think, the people (inaudible) the Internet

            13      consensus.  I have been, as I mentioned before,

            14      proposed by the (inaudible) participant bureau,

            15      but I been considered, I believe, it's a personal

            16      opinion, a (inaudible) person in the dialogue

            17      between both sides of the Atlantic in looking for

            18      this consensus.  That's . . .

            19                 MS. DYSON:  Great.  I'm going to skip

            20      Mike Roberts, because I asked him to go last and

            21      talk a little bit about the current operations of

            22      IANA/ICANN and give you sort of a factual update

            23      on some of that.  So Greg Crew from Australia.

            24                 MR. CREW:  Good morning, thanks,

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             1      Esther.  My background, like Eugenio's, is in

             2      telecommunications.  I've worked in Australia,

             3      Hong Kong and the United Kingdom.  There's a brief

             4      C.V. in the papers.  I'd just make a correction in

             5      there, an error which I had not fixed; I was not

             6      chief executive officer of Communications in the

             7      U.K., I was, in fact, chief operating officer.

             8                 I retired to go back home in 1995,

             9      about three years ago, and since then I've taken

            10      up a number of Board appointments, including the

            11      chairmanship of the Australian Communications

            12      Industry Board, which is an industry self-

            13      regulating body with a membership representative

            14      of all sectors of the industry, including the

            15      supply-and-demand side.  We have representatives

            16      on that Board and within the organization as well

            17      as carriers, providers, industry associations and

            18      so-forth.  And it's a large ground base membership

            19      and a structure that seems to be working pretty

            20      well.

            21                 I think it was in the course of that

            22      that a representative of the Australian office --

            23      National Office of Information and Economy, which

            24      the Australian government has set up to promote

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             1      the use of the Internet for commercial purposes in

             2      Australia, came to see me to find out how we

             3      operated the situation.  And out of that interview

             4      came a suggestion if I would consider serving on

             5      the Board of the body (inaudible) to self-regulate

             6      -- for self-regulation on the Internet.  I guess

             7      why did I say yes?  My career started around about

             8      the time that Sputnik went up, which is 35 years,

             9      and I experienced continuous change in the

            10      telecommunications industry, technological,

            11      regulatory, and it's -- I found it interesting to

            12      study what is probably the forefront of the

            13      change, even though I retired.  So that's my

            14      reason for being here.

            15                 MS. DYSON:  Thank you.  George

            16      Conrades.  And apparently the volume isn't as loud

            17      as it should be, so talk right into your mic.  I

            18      think you had -- is it nice and clear in the back

            19      there, Molly?

            20                 MS. HOUWELING:  Yes.

            21                 MS. DYSON:  Great, thank you.

            22                 MR. CONRADES:  Good morning, everybody. 

            23      Thank you very much for coming.  I'm currently a

            24      partner with Polaris Venture Partners here in

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             1      Boston, and we invest in early-stage IP and

             2      medical technologies, but primarily there -- the

             3      investments are with Internet start-ups.  I come

             4      to the Board by way of thirty-seven years in the

             5      IP industry, beginning in 1961 with IBM when that

             6      company was only about a billion and a half

             7      dollars in revenue, a long way from present both

             8      domestically and internationally.

             9                 In 1994, I became the CEO of Boll,

            10      Beranick and Newman (phonetic), a company some of

            11      you may recognize as having been at the beginning

            12      of the Internet by helping to build the Arpanet

            13      (phonetic) in 1969 and, in 1972, sending the first

            14      E-mail and having the "at" sign put in all of our

            15      E-mail addresses by a person who's still on the

            16      staff at BBN.

            17                 And through that, I got to know the

            18      wonderful culture and nature of the Inlex, have

            19      been responsible, both within BBN and certainly

            20      within the community, for the dramatic phenomenon

            21      of the Internet.

            22                 In 1997, we were acquired by GTE, and I

            23      spent a year with that organization, helping to

            24      devise a strategy for offering integrated

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             1      telecommunications services on an IP base.

             2                 I got to the ICANN Board by essentially

             3      minding my own business.  I was riding along in my

             4      automobile one day when the phone went off, and

             5      John Patrick from the local Internet project and

             6      IBM, who knew me from IBM, called and asked if I

             7      would consider being on this board.  He was

             8      calling on behalf of Joe Sims, who was putting a

             9      board together to be submitted to the U.S.

            10      government.  And John felt that my background in

            11      both IBM and with ISP and with a (inaudible), but

            12      also no longer being part of those firms, would be

            13      helpful on the board and said that he thought the

            14      job would be quite difficult, intellectually

            15      stimulating and highly frustrating.  I thought,

            16      well, two out of three isn't bad.

            17                 So I felt that because of my concern,

            18      which was really borne through the BBN experience,

            19      for the health and viability of the Internet, I

            20      would volunteer to join the Board, and here we

            21      are.

            22                 MS. DYSON:  Thank you.  Let me also

            23      just note that one thing you can do during the

            24      open comment period is ask questions of particular

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             1      Board members or all of us, and we would welcome

             2      that.  Frank Fitzsimmons.

             3                 MR. FITZSIMMONS:  Good morning,

             4      everybody, thanks for coming.  I'm currently VP of

             5      Gold Marketing for Dunn and Bradstreet with two

             6      specific responsibilities in strategy development

             7      and in strategy and limitation (inaudible) basis. 

             8      As you can read in the background material, most

             9      of my career was spent on the finance planning and

            10      business development side, division financial

            11      officer and North American planning officer.

            12                 I then shifted over the last six years

            13      to be involved in new business development and new

            14      business operations, operating (inaudible) start-

            15      up teams to explore new revenue opportunities. 

            16      And that included, as the Internet came along,

            17      included the Internet, our Web strategy, our Web

            18      business, as well as a participation of Dunn and

            19      Bradstreet in electronic commerce.

            20                 And it's through the involvement in

            21      those business activities that we got involved in

            22      a lot of the issues that are under discussion

            23      today and have been under discussion, in fact,

            24      over the last two years; specifically, data

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             1      privacy and data protection.  Dunn and Bradstreet

             2      has a very long history in being concerned and

             3      very responsible in those areas.  We got involved

             4      in a trust model and what it means to be on the

             5      Web and identifying your partners or your partners

             6      on the other end of that line.  We got involved in

             7      trademark discussions as well as -- we were

             8      somewhere between a spectator and a participant in

             9      the discussions over the last few years.

            10                 And it's in that -- in those activities

            11      and those discussions that was the reason that I

            12      got the call to participate in this Board. 

            13      Actually, I got two calls.  The first time -- the

            14      first time, I deferred participation.  I delegated

            15      it to somebody on my staff who had actually

            16      participated in the detail discussion for the last

            17      few years.  The second call I got -- and both

            18      calls were from Gene Shentrel from our Public

            19      Affairs Division.  The second call I got indicated

            20      that that person might not be senior enough and

            21      that, in fact, (inaudible) the Board that you see

            22      here today.  And, in fact, that second call also

            23      indicated that this initiative had a real chance

            24      of succeeding and hopefully gaining consensus, in

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             1      part because of the people that were being put on

             2      the Board.  And being a fan of -- or having become

             3      a fan of transitions and change over the last five

             4      to seven years, I couldn't resist the challenge.

             5                 I guess to answer a question that

             6      Esther asked earlier, do I represent any

             7      particular group, I think I can fairly well

             8      represent the commercial interests on the Internet

             9      today, having developed some Web-based businesses

            10      and watched it grow and having interest in the

            11      stability and growth as a business tool, so . . .

            12                 MS. DYSON:  Thanks.  I want to clear

            13      the air on one question which is being posed to me

            14      is, there is a contract between Dunn and

            15      Bradstreet and Network Solutions, and what is it,

            16      how significant is it?

            17                 MR. FITZSIMMONS:  Okay.  The

            18      contract -- you can see the press release on both

            19      the Network Solutions site as well as the D&B

            20      site, and it's, quite simply, a hypertext link

            21      agreement whereby, when you register for a domain

            22      name at the Network Solutions site, you can also

            23      click over to the D&B site and register for a

            24      Dunn's number.  And a Dunn's number is nothing

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             1      more than a simple, meaningless, in some sense,

             2      identification of a business at a particular

             3      location.  And to the extent that it has become,

             4      in some industries and in some initiatives, as a

             5      standard for identifying a business, the two

             6      companies saw a lot of promise in letting

             7      customers register for each at the same time.

             8                 MS. DYSON:  So are Dunn and

             9      Bradstreet's profits dependent on this particular

            10      contract?

            11                 MR. FITZSIMMONS:  Well, I would say

            12      that that's highly unlikely.  Well, I would defer

            13      that question -- actually, Dunn and Bradstreet

            14      does not retain any revenue from the assignment of

            15      a Dunn's number on an individual basis, so the

            16      profit has not come into the picture yet.

            17                 MS. DYSON:  Well, what's the point of

            18      doing it, then?

            19                 MR. FITZSIMMONS:  The point of doing it

            20      is that to the extent that there were two -- a

            21      number and a name that identified a business,

            22      either an electronic page or on the Web, that

            23      people ought to have the ability to register for

            24      both at the same time.

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             1                 MS. DYSON:  Okay.  Let me -- the

             2      question here has to do with conflict of interest. 

             3      If NSI suddenly says we don't want to do this any

             4      more, would it matter?

             5                 MR. FITZSIMMONS:  Quite frankly, no.

             6                 MS. DYSON:  Okay.

             7                 MR. FITZSIMMONS:  I think that they

             8      would have to almost speak for them, but I'm

             9      pretty sure that their business is not dependent

            10      on this either.

            11                 MS. DYSON:  Dunn, do you want to say

            12      just one --

            13                 DUNN:  I don't think it's a big deal.

            14                 MS. DYSON:  Dunn says, "I don't think

            15      it's a big deal."  You can go to the Web site and

            16      sort of see what this is, but I really did want to

            17      deal with this so that people would know, number

            18      one, we're willing to answer questions like this

            19      and to try and let people know who we are.  Okay,

            20      Mr. Hans Kraaijgnbrink.

            21                 MR. KRAAIJGNBRINK:  Good morning.  I'm

            22      Hans Kraaijgnbrink and I'm from the Netherlands. 

            23      Currently I'm chairman of the executive board of

            24      the European Telephones Operator Association, and

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             1      my salary is paid by E.T.O.A., which is the

             2      privatized telephone operator -- main telephone

             3      operator in the Netherlands.  I was asked by a

             4      representative of the European Commission, if the

             5      ICANN Board came into existence, I was willing to

             6      accept nomination.  At first I was very hesitant

             7      because I said I know nothing of the Internet. 

             8      Well, that's very good, they'd say.  I know

             9      nothing about the discussion which is going on;

            10      well, that's very good.  And the reason for

            11      selecting me was that I could share experience

            12      with other international organizations.  By

            13      chairing the executive board of an association

            14      which has forty-four members from thirty-one

            15      different European countries, you have to deal

            16      with quite a number of different approaches to

            17      solving problems, to solving discussions and

            18      inputting into the policy with the European

            19      Commission.

            20                 I was trained as an electrical engineer

            21      at (inaudible) University, where I graduated in

            22      1966, not 1996 as I've read, because that would be

            23      a bit strange.  I've worked in several fields. 

            24      I've been in research and development, I've been

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             1      in public affairs, and I also worked in government

             2      concerned with regulation and with law making. 

             3      And as a trained electrical engineer, I would say

             4      I'm a fresh-water lawyer as well, and I've

             5      discovered that lawyers and engineers have a lot

             6      in common, at least in the way of thinking an

             7      analyzing problems.

             8                 I entered ICANN with a very open mind,

             9      and I was amazed about the intensity and the items

            10      which are in discussion.  And to explain to you my

            11      position in this, I feel that like IANA was, ICANN

            12      should be an enabler for the ongoing development

            13      of the Internet.  I certainly will not be -- let

            14      me be forced in a position where the Board will

            15      dictate how the Internet will go, nor, I believe,

            16      as a Board member, I want to be dictated how the

            17      Internet should go.  I believe that gives an

            18      impression of my position as a European.  I'm

            19      sometimes a little bit surprised by the intensity

            20      of the American debate, but I believe that we can

            21      learn a lot from each other.  Thank you.

            22                 MS. DYSON:  Thank you.  Let me just

            23      explain about the other three Board members who

            24      are not here and then have Michael Roberts be both

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             1      a Board member and the interim president.  Linda

             2      Wilson, who is president of Radcliffe, is actually

             3      officiating at two other conferences here in

             4      Cambridge this morning and will show up around

             5      noon and will also welcome herself, so to speak. 

             6      Jim Murai unfortunately couldn't be here. 

             7      Likewise Geraldine Capdebos from Bool and Friends

             8      (phonetic).  Just as you will eventually see a

             9      transcript, so will they.  I'm sure we'll tell

            10      them what happened and so forth, but the -- they

            11      both send their apologies, and Linda Wilson will

            12      apologize personally.  So Mike Roberts.

            13                 MR. ROBERTS:  Thanks, Esther.  I, too,

            14      got involved through Joe Sims.  In my case, it was

            15      in September, and Joe called me to ask me if I

            16      would consider being a member and start-up CEO of

            17      what has become ICANN.  My credits for that

            18      include thirty years the computing and networking

            19      and telecommunications business and higher

            20      education.  A considerable part of that in recent

            21      years has been -- has involved policy issues, and

            22      I'm certainly acquainted with (inaudible) audience

            23      personally.

            24                 The -- one of the bases for the phone

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             1      call or the tentativeness of it was that they were

             2      initiating some board who would go to work

             3      immediately because the government's deadline is

             4      approaching, and we did not wish to be a candidate

             5      for the permanent job because there wasn't any

             6      possibility, with the end-of-September deadline

             7      approaching, to do a reputable, respectable and

             8      open search.  So I -- since, among other things, I

             9      was available in theory because I'd retired last

            10      year, or attempted to retire, the Board asked me

            11      to meet with them the first time I think it

            12      assembled face-to-face, which was October 25th in

            13      New York City.  And we had a discussion about my

            14      qualifications and my interest, and after a

            15      private session, they asked me if I would take the

            16      job and I said I would.  And they said, "Well, you

            17      just went to work."

            18                 And so this is day six of work of week

            19      three of the corporate existence of ICANN.  I have

            20      -- because of John's untimely passing, there has

            21      been considerably worry in the community that the

            22      continuity of the work that he did and the

            23      services that ICANN provides to the community

            24      continue without interruption.  And it's been

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             1      right at the top of my list to make sure that that

             2      happens.  I'm responsible now for a small company

             3      with a staff of five people, including myself.  My

             4      vice president is Ceta (phonetic) Winslow, who is

             5      here with us.  Ceta, why don't you stand up and

             6      let everybody see you in the back here.  She's

             7      responsible for -- she was John's invaluable

             8      assistant over the course of the summer in working

             9      through the process, and she's responsible for the

            10      day-to-day activities in Marina Del Ray where our

            11      administrative and technical headquarters are. 

            12      And she's backed up by an extremely loyal and

            13      dedicated staff there composed of Joyce Reynolds

            14      and John Shelby and Suzanne Wall.

            15                 We obviously can't continue to run this

            16      company with five people, several of whom are

            17      temporary.  And so one of my first priorities is

            18      finding several permanent staff members, and we'll

            19      be putting some announcements about that on the --

            20      and recruiting for that on the ICANN, which will

            21      go up at the beginning of next week.

            22                 I'd also like to say that there's an

            23      extremely long list, as almost everybody in the

            24      room is familiar with, an extremely long to-do

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             1      list for ICANN.  The federal government has not

             2      addressed the backlog of policy work for quite a

             3      long time.  Many of you have, I think, the

             4      perception you've suffered through a two-year

             5      government white -- green paper, white paper

             6      process.  And so that has now sort of been

             7      deposited in our lap to address.  And we certainly

             8      think you can tell from my fellow Board members

             9      here that we are as anxious as you are to get on

            10      with the job of doing that and working with the

            11      community to sort out the pieces, establish

            12      consensus, use the open notice and comment

            13      provisions of the by-laws so that everybody has a

            14      chance to be heard on these matters and to, in

            15      effect, get some things done here.

            16                 The -- my personal priorities working

            17      with the Board at the present time include

            18      completing the negotiation of the three major

            19      agreements that will have immediate contractual

            20      force for the company.  One of those is obviously

            21      with the U.S. government, and we've had several

            22      discussions through counsel over the last several

            23      weeks, and we will -- that obviously will

            24      continue.

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             1                 There is also -- there are several

             2      references to what has become ICANN in the

             3      agreement between the government, the U.S.

             4      government and Network Solutions that reference

             5      Newco, and that has turned out to be us, and we

             6      clearly have some aggressive timetables in that

             7      agreement, those of you who are familiar with

             8      that.  I believe that material is in your briefing

             9      book, if you're interested in referencing that.

            10                 And of course the third agreement is to

            11      take what we've stepped in and did without

            12      crossing T's and dotting I's with respect to the

            13      staff in (inaudible), and that is to complete an

            14      agreement with the University of Southern

            15      California for some of our administrative staff

            16      arrangements.

            17                 Beyond that, I think it's certainly

            18      apparent that the company needs the supporting

            19      organizations in place and functioning.  They're

            20      critical to the work that we have to do.  I've

            21      already been spending quite a bit of time working

            22      with people who are interested in being proposed

            23      as support organizations, and I won't say any more

            24      about that now, because we have a session on that,

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             1      but it's right at the top of the list of my

             2      problems.

             3                 Obviously we have to have a business

             4      and financial plan for the company.  I've had a

             5      lot of experience doing that.  Ceta is working on

             6      that, I'm working on that.  I'm sure (inaudible)

             7      consulted about that, because the funds for ICANN

             8      are going to come from the community.  There's

             9      lots of creative energy out there about how we

            10      might -- how you might help us support ourselves,

            11      and we're looking forward to seeing that come

            12      forward when we notice and comment our revenue and

            13      financial and budget plans.

            14                 I'd also like to say that it is

            15      essential that the constituencies of ICANN on a

            16      worldwide basis feel that they are genuinely

            17      consulted.  I'm going to Europe tomorrow, and the

            18      Board intends to select a meeting date and a

            19      meeting site in Asia before they leave Boston

            20      today.  I've been invited to South American and to

            21      Africa right after the first of the year, and I'll

            22      see what can be done about that.

            23                 I guess in closing, Esther very

            24      eloquently, I think, indicated to you all how

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             1      essential it is that we do this together, and I

             2      feel that I'm part of a team that can help make

             3      that happen.  Esther asked us to say, well, why

             4      are you willing to do this.  A couple of reasons. 

             5      First of all, the community in which I spent most

             6      of my professional career feels very strongly

             7      about getting it done, and so, you know, you can't

             8      live in that community for thirty years without

             9      absorbing some of it, and so I have that in my

            10      background.

            11                 Secondly, I feel that for all of the

            12      deficiencies in it, the process that the

            13      government went through to create the white paper

            14      and consensus that was in the white paper

            15      (inaudible) community to make self-government

            16      work.  I personally very strongly believe in that,

            17      and so I want to try to help, along with you, help

            18      this grand experiment to succeed.  And as you're

            19      undoubtedly aware, a lot of folks are very

            20      skeptical about whether self-regulation of these

            21      functions in the Internet can succeed.  I'm an

            22      optimist and I believe it can, and I look forward

            23      to working with you to make it happen.

            24                 MS. DYSON:  Thanks.  We're running out

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             1      of time, so just -- could you take one or two

             2      minutes, just -- unlike the rest of us, you do

             3      have a little more history here.  Just how did you

             4      come to this?

             5                 MR. ROBERTS:  My -- well, I obviously

             6      participated in the summer process as a consultant

             7      to several clients, and I suppose I should say

             8      that in your answer to the question, are you

             9      willing to do anything else while you do this,

            10      first of all, that's not a very sensible question

            11      because this already an eighty-hour-a-week job. 

            12      But to be direct about it, (inaudible) consultant

            13      clients with their agreements with me in

            14      (inaudible) CEO of the company.  I think that my

            15      explanation of my invitation to do this and my

            16      conversation with the Board (inaudible).  Thank

            17      you.

            18                 MS. DYSON:  Okay.  All right.  Charlie,

            19      do you want to come up and explain how we're going

            20      to run the rest of the day?

            21                 MR. FENELLO:  There's a question here. 

            22      Speak up.

            23                 MR. FELD:  Just one quick question,

            24      front microphone.  What would be your --

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             1                 MS. DYSON:  You can't be recorded if

             2      you don't use the mic, and you have to say who you

             3      are.  We -- go ahead, Charlie.  We really want to

             4      hear people, but we . . .

             5                 MR. FENELLO:  Hello?  It's Howard Feld,

             6      and I believe it's religious reasons that he can't

             7      use the microphone.

             8                 MS. DYSON:  Oh, okay.

             9                 MR. FENELLO:  Could the Board please

            10      address, how many members were directly or

            11      indirectly contacted by Joe Sims for their current

            12      position?

            13                 MS. DYSON:  All of us, I believe. 

            14      Maybe not for you.

            15                 MR. KRAAIJGNBRINK:  No, I was not and

            16      Eugenio Triana was not.

            17                 MS. DYSON:  But then you were contacted

            18      about the meeting.  Yeah, Greg?

            19                 MR. CREW:  Just to clarify, the only

            20      contact I had with Joe was a formal question, was

            21      I willing to stand.  That was the only contact.

            22                 MR. CONRADES:  And I was not formally

            23      contacted from Joe.  He did not initiate the call

            24      to me.  The call came through our public affairs

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             1      office, I think two calls came through our public

             2      affairs office, and then I spoke to Joe.

             3                 MS. DYSON:  Okay.

             4                 MR. NESSON:  Might I suggest that Joe

             5      is in the room, and at a meeting yesterday, he

             6      made a statement which I thought was exceedingly

             7      clarifying.  And with your permission, Esther, I'd

             8      love to invite Joe just to make a statement.

             9                 MS. DYSON:  Okay, here he comes.  And

            10      then, you know, honestly . . .

            11                 MR. SIMS:  The -- there is posted, I

            12      believe, on the IANA Web site or it will be

            13      shortly a document which consists of answers to

            14      questions that were posed to me by the Science

            15      Committee, one of which was, how was this Board

            16      selected.  So you can read that in more detail,

            17      but I will try to repeat, to the best of my

            18      ability, what it says in there, which is, in fact,

            19      that throughout the summer, John Costello

            20      solicited suggestions for people who might serve

            21      on the Board.  He got suggestions from a very

            22      large number of people, ranging from the technical

            23      community to the business community to people

            24      representing the European Commission and other

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             1      governments.

             2                 The -- when we came down to the final

             3      process of determining who would be invited to

             4      serve on the Board, that decision was made by

             5      John.  He asked me to contact the people that he

             6      thought would be the most appropriate people to

             7      serve on the Board.  I contacted, I believe, each

             8      of the people who are now members of the Board,

             9      all of whom, I believe, had been contacted by

            10      somebody prior to that time to ask them whether

            11      they were interested and would it be okay to

            12      submit their names along with probably several

            13      hundred other folks.  And I sent an E-mail, as I

            14      recall, asking would they be willing to serve on

            15      this Board.  And of the people that I formally

            16      asked to serve on this Board, we asked ten people,

            17      and nine of them said yes.  We did not take all

            18      the suggestions from the European Commission or

            19      other governments, but we did find some of them to

            20      be perfectly appropriate and valuable suggestions,

            21      and some of those people now sit on the Board.  So

            22      that's -- those are the facts.

            23                 MS. DYSON:  Thank you.  Let me just say

            24      one more thing.  You know, there are lots of --

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             1      how does one put it? -- complaints, how did we

             2      come to be here.  If we had created an electorate

             3      to elect us, the question would be, well, who

             4      created this electorate?  Was that legitimate? 

             5      You know, at some point what we're dealing with is

             6      a given reality, and we're trying to take that

             7      reality, go through this one to two-year

             8      transition process, again, have you change from

             9      one system over to another.  And so what we're

            10      trying to do is work with you going forward rather

            11      than going backwards to get to the point where, in

            12      some sense, we can open up a transparent cocoon

            13      and let a butterfly out and all of us disappear. 

            14      It is our job to be legitimate from where we are

            15      rather than go over how we happen to be here.

            16                 You know, if we don't do our job right,

            17      you should be complaining about that.  But we're

            18      here, we hope to get our authority from the U.S.

            19      government, and then we hope to use it wisely and

            20      in consultation with you to build the final

            21      structure.

            22                 MR. NESSON:  Thank you, Jay, for

            23      helping us with that moment of awkwardness there. 

            24      Appreciate it.  First, just on behalf of myself

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             1      and the Berkman Center and Harvard and MIT and

             2      Cambridge --

             3                 MS. DYSON:  And the Marriott.

             4                 MR. NESSON:  -- and the Marriott, let

             5      me welcome you here.  It's a pleasure and an honor

             6      to have this meeting.  The Berkman Center

             7      basically believes that the approach to solving

             8      problems is to create a process which, by its very

             9      nature of deliberation, produces solution and that

            10      my only function right now is to introduce my

            11      Berkman Center process team to you and turn things

            12      over.  So if I could just have -- Jonathan

            13      Zittrain, you know.  Molly Shaffer Van Houweling

            14      is -- will be helping just a little later on and

            15      is just a face for everything that we've been

            16      doing.  Then Evelyn here as scribe.  Andrew

            17      McLaughlin as scribe's assistant.  Wendy Seltzer

            18      as -- what's your -- empress of Cyberspace --

            19      no, something like that.  Andrew McGilvry is Alex

            20      Macgillivray, right here.  Andrew, I still

            21      claim you Andrew Shapiro from last year.  And with

            22      that, let me just say, our job here is to

            23      facilitate this meeting, and I'd like to turn it

            24      over to John Zittrain.

                            O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES


For additional information, please contact:  

Wendy Seltzer, Ben Edelman, Alexander Macgillivray, and Antoun Nabhan. 
Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard Law School