40 1 MR. ZITTRAIN: Thank you, Charlie. 2 First, as you may have noticed, due to the amazing 3 amount of technology in the room, everything is 4 being taped, transcribed, broadcast live on the 5 Net, bounced around various satellites. Carl 6 Auerback had kindly offered to have set up an 7 M-bone connection, which did not quite come 8 together. There is a missing server of some kind. 9 If anybody has it, please talk to Carl, but it is 10 too late now for there to be a successful M-bone 11 connection. But we do apparently have a real 12 network speed going out, and the trick to it is 13 not to speak too closely to the mic, but to speak 14 forcefully, loudly and to have good substance as 15 well. 16 AUDIENCE: And without excessive 17 pauses. 18 MR. ZITTRAIN: And without excessive 19 pauses as well. 20 AUDIENCE: It turns off mid-sentence -- 21 MR. ZITTRAIN: Talk about the tail 22 wagging the dog here. That's what the technology 23 demands if you want to be -- oh, and John 24 Willbanks, also of the Berkman Center, is saying O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 41 1 everything is fine. 2 MR. WILLBANKS: Yes. 3 MR. ZITTRAIN: Great. Also, you'll 4 notice that there are comment forms in the 5 binders. You can fill them out at your leisure 6 through the afternoon as you're sort of doodling, 7 picking thoughts, coming up with stuff. You can 8 turn that in after. We plan to take this briefing 9 book and turn it into the proceedings of the 10 meeting, which will include any of the comments 11 that have arrived by whatever media they have 12 arrived coming out of this meeting and some time 13 period after that. 14 Also, I believe you'll notice that we 15 have a scribe here. The scribe will be doing his 16 best to capture what's going on, not just to have 17 a list of names as people speak, but to put it 18 in -- other than this great transcript we're 19 getting, put it in some form that's actually 20 lending help to the meeting itself as we go 21 forward. Obviously that's a function of 22 translation. He can do it wrong, it can be 23 somehow inexact, so bear with him. You may want 24 to correct him, if need be. Otherwise, there will O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 42 1 be opportunity at the breaks or after the meeting 2 to actually talk to the scribe and make changes to 3 the record. 4 Let's see. We also have, just within 5 moments, the open agenda part of the meeting. 6 This is just an open time where I know people have 7 been -- there's apparently a box. Has the box 8 already gone where it needs to be? Is it still -- 9 there's a box somewhere with the slips that people 10 fill out and put in the box, so we're going to 11 take that and put that over to our team here, who, 12 without any regard for what name is on the slip, 13 will pull it out and start getting maybe a list of 14 five people so we know who's up next and then 15 who's on deck to speak. There's a lot of names, 16 not a lot of time relative to the names. It could 17 go all day on the open part of the meeting. 18 Also realize there are the three 19 substantive areas, you'll see those in Esther's 20 welcome letter, the three agenda items. The idea 21 is to, during the agenda times for the substantive 22 items, stick to those items. During the open time 23 now, say whatever's on your mind, ask whatever's 24 on your mind of the Board, and realize that the O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 43 1 Board may actually ask something of you or of 2 somebody else in the room, as just happened, to 3 help fill out the question. We actually have had 4 the scribe arrange for a timer. The timer will be 5 a two-minute timer. I don't know what special 6 effects we have, but we plan to stick very closely 7 to it. Please, if your time runs out when you are 8 in the middle of a brilliant thought, complete it 9 within ten seconds and realize that if it is over 10 that time, I may take some license to tell you 11 that your time is, in fact, up. It's not meant to 12 tell you that you don't have a good idea. It's 13 meant to say that there are a lot of people in the 14 room and we want to keep it moving. 15 In fairness, I think I'm going to ask 16 our scribe, if it's at all possible -- am I 17 running out of time? Well, I guess I'm done. I'm 18 going to ask the scribe, if at all possible, to 19 stop the clock while somebody else is talking. So 20 if you ask the Board a question and then they eat 21 up your two minutes by giving you a non-responsive 22 answer, that shouldn't happen. So we'll have some 23 opportunity for you to use up your two minutes 24 actually as you're talking, and just -- the first O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 44 1 rule of privilege, I'm told by Charlie Nesson, is 2 not to abuse it, and we're hoping that that 3 collective spirit can come today and that truly 4 the Board, which may not be subject to this sort 5 of damocles, will also be brief, knowing that 6 there are that many more comments out there of 7 people who want to be heard. 8 MS. DYSON: One other point. 9 MR. ZITTRAIN: Yes. 10 MS. DYSON: The Board can actually ask 11 questions of the speaker as well. 12 MR. ZITTRAIN: Yes, that's exactly 13 right, which the speaker may or may not answer, 14 but hopefully will in the spirit of today. Also, 15 if you can and if you so desire, please identify 16 yourself before you speak so that the scribe can 17 get the name down and so that you may be 18 identified later if another point comes up that is 19 apropos. So that all being said, why don't we 20 move right into this session. And I saw we 21 already have the list of names, starting with, I 22 would imagine, the first name, Ronda. Is Ronda 23 Hauben here? Ronda, you have your two minutes. 24 Welcome. O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 45 1 MS. HAUBEN: Is this the mic? It sad 2 to be here today. Let me say by way of 3 introduction, I have submitted a proposal that's 4 on-line that, in fact, is what should be happening 5 instead of this. It's sad to be here today. The 6 concentration of power and wealth that is public 7 in nature and that this private group is taking 8 from the public is a very sad commentary on the 9 current times. The Internet has been created by a 10 great deal of public contribution and tax money, 11 and the public has a right to the fruits of their 12 contribution. Creating this private corporation, 13 which is in violation of all the laws forbidding 14 great concentration of economic power, is the 15 opposite of safeguarding the public purpose of 16 access to the Internet. 17 For many years, the statements have 18 been made that there is no central points of 19 control over the Internet. That is known now to 20 be false. But for many years, the central points 21 of the control were in public hands, with public 22 interest surrounding their use. This has now all 23 changed with the creation of this private 24 corporation to usurp these public assets. This O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 46 1 corporation has been created by your secret 2 process and the Board members chosen by a secret 3 process involving corporate entities and 4 government people serving these corporate 5 entities. 6 This is contrary to the whole effort of 7 people to build and develop the Internet, which has been 8 successfully created to oppose the creation of 9 power and to make it possible for the people to 10 speak for themselves about their needs and their 11 visions. This private corporation has been 12 created by the U.S. Government and 13 Corporate Entities, who have ignored the vision 14 that has built the Internet and that has made it 15 the hope of people around the world for a better 16 future. The policy-making powers that have been 17 given to this private corporation belong to 18 governments and to cooperative public processes, not 19 to any private entity. 20 Thus, this private entity is trying to 21 usurp people's rights to maintain their 22 sovereignty. There is no membership 23 organizational structure that can change this, as 24 the power will still reside, and in who knows who O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 47 1 will control the Board. This is a centralized 2 structure that is fundamentally hostile to the 3 nature of the Internet as a participatory structure. If the U.S. 4 government and any other government that has 5 helped the U.S. government to create this private 6 corporate entity really had any concern for the 7 Internet and its users, they would have created an 8 on-line forum that would work to solve any 9 problems that exist in the participatory way that 10 the Internet makes possible. It is -- 11 MR. ZITTRAIN: Thank you, Ronda, thank 12 you. I believe everybody has a copy of that, and 13 maybe I could just ask Esther or any of the Board 14 members to respond. 15 MS. DYSON: Actually, no. At this 16 point, we've listened, and I think we'll go on. 17 Thank you. 18 MR. ZITTRAIN: Thank you. Jay Fenello 19 is next from Microdome. 20 MR. FENELLO: Good morning, Jay 21 Fenello, Microdome. By this morning's show of 22 hands, it's apparent that we want to support this 23 Board. It's also apparent that we do not trust 24 this Board, nor this process. We don't know where O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 48 1 you came from. Apparently, in recent 2 congressional testimony, Joe Sims said he didn't 3 know who made the phone calls. This Board has 4 countered that claim. In spite of this, we still 5 want to trust this Board. 6 Recently, members of ORC and members of 7 Boston (inaudible) have had a lengthy conversation 8 with the members of this Board. We've reported 9 our concerns, and they were not adequately 10 addressed. Well, we asked the reasons why and we 11 asked for Board minutes to be released before this 12 meeting so we could understand the rationale for 13 ignoring those suggestions. Those were not 14 forthcoming. So we do want to support this Board. 15 However, you're not making it easy for us. 16 In Esther's response to an article 17 summarizing the ORC position, she said this would 18 not be a dog-and-pony show. Well, from this 19 morning's meeting and format, I think it will be a 20 dog-and-pony show, and I'm very concerned about 21 that. So I'd like this to go on the record. And 22 as I say, we want to support this Board, but the 23 Board has to help us. Thank you. 24 MS. DYSON: Okay. One comment in O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 49 1 response. I think our transmittal letter was 2 probably a better analysis of the recent sort of 3 changes we made or did not make, and our minutes 4 will be -- which one or two of the Board members 5 are still not approved, so we couldn't post them 6 yet. The second is, I hope we will explain some 7 of our reasoning to you today, and I hope we will 8 also get a lot of remaining questions answered. 9 For example, we did agree to have a membership 10 structure, and we'd like to know how to do that. 11 And that's one of the things we want to discuss 12 with you. 13 MR. FENELLO: I ask who are the Board 14 members (inaudible) so far. 15 MS. DYSON: George, and I know there -- 16 Mike Weinberg, who's missing. 17 AUDIENCE: Geraldine. 18 MS. DYSON: And Geraldine. They've 19 been encouraged to do this. We hope to have it 20 done (inaudible). But honestly, the transmittal 21 letter is more useful. 22 MR. ZITTRAIN: I'd just like to say 23 something to Jay's point from the point of view of 24 the Berkman Center, at least from myself, and that O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 50 1 is, I hope the dogs and ponies won't be brought in 2 at any point during the day. It's true we have a 3 lot of tech here and a lot of process, that kind 4 of thing, but at least from our point of view, the 5 reason is actually to get substantive ideas out, 6 whatever they may be, and both in this session and 7 in the specific sessions that are to follow. We 8 participate in the IFWP process in some fashion. 9 We've tried to put together consensus points 10 there. And we're right with you that -- and I'm 11 convinced, at least personally, that Esther is 12 behind the idea of actually having this be a real 13 meeting, not just having it kind of be a pat on 14 the back and that's it. 15 MR. FENELLO: We are supportive of the 16 process of defining the membership structure over 17 the course of the year, but there are outstanding 18 issues with the by-laws that need to be addressed 19 before the U.S. government gives this Board 20 approval to go forward. That's the issue here. 21 MR. ZITTRAIN: Indeed. Who's next? 22 SCRIBE: Michael Sondow. 23 MR. ZITTRAIN: Michael Sondow? 24 MR. SONDOW: Good morning. I just -- O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 51 1 MS. DYSON: It's not working. 2 MR. SONDOW: This microphone's not 3 working? Good morning. I would just like to ask 4 the Board, with all due respect, I'm sure 5 everybody on the Board is very competent, that 6 this Board may, indeed, accomplish what it says 7 that it has set out to accomplish, but I would 8 just like to ask each and every one of you if it 9 didn't -- if the question didn't cross your minds 10 when you were contacted about this Board as to 11 just who these people were who were calling you 12 and asking you to sit on this Board, what the 13 thought -- the question of authority is very 14 complicated. This Esther Dyson has said that yes, 15 we can mess around and waste years discussing who 16 has authority. Well, we don't have years to mess 17 around discussing it, but it is, nevertheless, an 18 extremely important question. Where does the 19 authority spring for this organization? Was John 20 Costello designated as the person to choose the 21 Board members of the International Central 22 Internet Authority? 23 When Joe Sims called you, did you ask 24 him, "Who are you? Who do you represent? What O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 52 1 paper has established your authority to designate 2 me, a person who has admittedly" -- who admitted, 3 most of you have, except perhaps Mike Robertson, 4 not been involved in this process? Why were you 5 called? Why were you chosen? Why are you sitting 6 here rather than other people who might be on this 7 Board that many of us would rather see on this 8 Board? 9 MS. DYSON: I'll answer it. Any other 10 Board member who wants to take a crack at this 11 can. The ICANN, as constructed, in some sense, 12 had no authority other than to be itself and to 13 pick Board members it wanted. Then it got 14 indicated -- the government indicated that, "We 15 think you are the people we might give authority 16 to if we believe that you are appropriate," 17 including the Board members that -- 18 MR. SONDOW: I beg your pardon, but I 19 don't believe the government -- the government 20 didn't contact you, did they? 21 MS. DYSON: No. I mean, well, I -- 22 MR. SONDOW: Just -- let me just say I 23 don't understand what you're saying. 24 MS. DYSON: You mean should I O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 53 1 believe -- should I think that these guys are 2 lying and that the U.S. government wasn't 3 negotiating with them? I mean -- 4 MR. SONDOW: I beg your pardon, but the 5 U.S. government talked about a democratic 6 processing consensus approach to forming this 7 organization, not that one man, John Costello, his 8 legal representatives chosen by him for his own 9 reasons. That was not the process that was 10 defined by the U.S. government. 11 MS. DYSON: What the U.S. government 12 basically said was, we want to hand over this -- 13 call it authority, to a consensus of the Internet 14 community. And at first, I think they thought 15 they could form it, and then they said, we want it 16 to form itself, and if we are satisfied with the 17 outcome, then we will hand over that authority. 18 And that, as I understand it, is the essence of 19 what happened. The government is trying to get 20 you to create consensus that it can give that 21 authority to. 22 MR. SONDOW: Now, what was the 23 process -- 24 MR. ZITTRAIN: Michael, thank you. O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 54 1 Your time's up. 2 MS. DYSON: And the process continues. 3 The process changes. The goal of consensus 4 continues. 5 SCRIBE: Harold Feld? 6 MR. ZITTRAIN: Harold Feld's next? 7 Yeah, go ahead. 8 MR. FENELLO: Harold Feld, thanks to 9 his translator. As these comments have 10 demonstrated, there is the question of the issue 11 of access to information and how that builds 12 trust. I'd like to suggest a specific membership 13 structure that could be adopted in a short term 14 with the goal of disseminating information rather 15 than directly electing Board members. I would ask 16 the Board to consider creating a general 17 membership category which would be open to either 18 individuals or corporations which would have 19 certain rights of access to the books of account 20 or to Board meetings on par with those of the 21 shareholders to a private corporation. 22 MR. ZITTRAIN: Sounds like if you have 23 an interim Board, an interim chair, an interim 24 (inaudible), you could have an interim membership, O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 55 1 is the idea. I don't know if you want to defer 2 that to the time when we're talking about 3 membership or respond to it now. Is there a 4 preference? 5 MS. DYSON: If someone has a comment. 6 I think we will note it and return to it during 7 the membership section. Thank you. 8 MR. ZITTRAIN: Okay. Who's up next, 9 scribe? Richard Snow. 10 MR. SNOW: I come to this meeting as a 11 user of the Internet. 12 MR. ZITTRAIN: Name? Name? 13 MR. SNOW: Richard Snow, sorry. I'm 14 coming to the meeting as a user of the Internet, 15 someone who's spent a number of years lurking and 16 participating in Usenet in a variety of different 17 places, and while I realize that there is a very 18 dramatic argument about the process, I think the 19 thing that is very important to me is what Hans 20 was saying earlier, that this needs to be an 21 enabling process, that this is not a process by 22 which some organization is taking ownership of the 23 Internet, that what you all have to put in your 24 hearts as you go forward is to create a space O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 56 1 where an open public forum can exist, multi- 2 national, that's not U.S.-biased, that's not 3 biased towards one particular religion or creed or 4 one particular view of sexuality, one particular 5 view of what is a definition of pornography, what 6 is correct religiously. 7 It's very important that, as Esther was 8 saying, there a transition to something that can 9 release a butterfly, this organization, sometimes 10 perhaps ugly, provides simply a cocoon which can 11 then later grow and release something which is 12 completely different, an organization that 13 blossoms. So with that, I am placing my faith in 14 you. And I'd like to say one thing in particular, 15 that we look at this with the wise eyes of a 16 grandparent, as someone older watching children at 17 play. Thank you. 18 MS. DYSON: Thanks. 19 MR. ZITTRAIN: Who's up next? 20 MS. DYSON: We really appreciate that 21 sentiment, and we just want to make it work. We 22 want your support in making it work. 23 MR. ZITTRAIN: Richard Lindsey? 24 MR. LINDSEY: I am Richard Lindsey. I O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 57 1 represent a company (inaudible) Corporation in 2 Japan. The reason I say that is because I came a 3 long way, which means that people around the world 4 believe this is a very important process. Other 5 than some of the prior speakers, I have three main 6 points. The first is, this important to us. 7 The second is that, it was unique 8 that -- Esther's comment about the former Soviet 9 Union's attempts at privatization. The problem 10 with the former Soviet Union is, things didn't 11 work then, whereas with the (inaudible) basically 12 things worked. They're going to go from one 13 system that worked to another system that worked. 14 I think the big problem is the issue of time. And 15 there can be discussions forever regarding this 16 issue. There will not be a consensus. I think 17 that will be impossible. The issue, though, I 18 believe is to accept, well, is this the way we're 19 going to do things, and then let's get down to 20 business and see if it works or not. If it 21 doesn't work, then people should revolt and throw 22 up their arms and say this is not the way it was 23 supposed to work. 24 My final comment is that I think things O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 58 1 should be done in a unique manner. We're not 2 looking to build another committee or to set up 3 another company, basically. This is a new way of 4 doing business. And I think that at least as far 5 as the rest of the world is concerned, we're 6 saying, well, let's see what happens, we want to 7 see something unique. I think the comments have 8 had (inaudible) an on-line page on the Web 9 (inaudible). If things don't work, we'll cancel 10 them. But overall, I feel that there is unique 11 opportunity, and I'd encourage everyone to move 12 quickly and get down to business. 13 MR. ZITTRAIN: Thank you. 14 MS. DYSON: Let me just say one thing 15 about the Soviet Union and Russia, because I 16 probably didn't make this clear. What I learned 17 from Russia was how not to do it. And what I've 18 learned, to some extent, with places like Poland 19 is how well it worked. You're absolutely right; 20 in Russia, things didn't work before and they're 21 not working afterwards. And it's, on the one 22 hand, a model of what secrecy and abuse of power 23 can do, and on the other, the chaos you have now 24 with no authority and no rule of law. Whereas in O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 59 1 a place like Poland, you had some of the same 2 tensions, and they created a process that was 3 generally considered to be fair and to make that 4 transition. And now in Poland, nobody worries, 5 frankly, about privatization morality. Every 6 Polish consumer wants a washing machine and a 7 vacation in Greece, and most of them get it. But 8 the process of transition was very important to 9 making that happen. 10 And so when Ronda talks about the 11 users, you know, they are important here. They 12 may want nothing more than Internet access and a 13 domain name that works. But yes, there has to be, 14 behind all that, a process that works and, if you 15 like, the factories of the Internet along with all 16 these other systems that work quietly. 17 MR. LINDSEY: One point, that the 18 Polish had a head start over the Soviet Union, and 19 it did take about ten years before they started 20 getting some success. 21 MS. DYSON: Thanks for the 22 encouragement. 23 MR. ZITTRAIN: On to the next two 24 minutes of the rest of this organization's life. O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 60 1 Einar Stefferud? 2 MR. STEFFERUD: First, you have my name 3 misspelled. 4 MR. ZITTRAIN: That's -- 5 MR. STEFFERUD: E-I-N-A-R -- 6 MR. ZITTRAIN: A-R, isn't it? I was 7 wondering. I figured I'd trust the scribe. 8 MR. STEFFERUD: I'd like to say that 9 (inaudible) problems. If you can't find the 10 answer to the problem you're trying to solve, it's 11 probably because the problem is a bigger problem 12 and you are looking too many levels below where 13 you should be. The problem we have is a lack of 14 trust. Trust has to be earned. Trust is not 15 bought. It has to be earned. You guys have to 16 earn it. There's no other way to do this, and 17 begging is not a good strategy. We understand 18 you're a whiz, but begging isn't going to get it. 19 Okay? We really want this all to be organized 20 around principals rather than around people. The 21 reason for that is fairly obvious and became so 22 with passing of John. If we were depending on him 23 to save our butts, we aren't going to be able to 24 use that now. We need to do it on our own. O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 61 1 The other point is that by doing that, 2 by making the Board by-laws appropriate to be 3 based on principals rather than people, then we 4 don't care so much who it is that's sitting up 5 there at the head table. What we want is by-laws 6 that protect us from you in a way that we can 7 trust. That's the beginning of the building of 8 trust. As long as your by-laws consistently are 9 organized to make you unsuable and unaccountable 10 and free from all of our pressures and all of our 11 wishes, we will give you our trust. The community 12 will not trust that. You simply need to find a 13 way to give us trust by writing by-laws that we 14 can breathe and feel and taste and trust instead 15 of stories about how you got there and all of 16 that. We don't care who's on the Board; we will 17 accept your Board; use our by-laws. And that's 18 our basic position. It's all documented. 19 MR. ZITTRAIN: Thank you. You now have 20 minus twenty-three seconds, so thank you. Any 21 response? 22 MS. DYSON: Basically I hope we'll be 23 answering a lot of those questions during the day, 24 without begging. O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 62 1 MR. ZITTRAIN: Is it really Dan Stein 2 or is there two Dan Steinbergs? 3 SCRIBE: Two people. Dan Stein is 4 the -- 5 MR. ZITTRAIN: Two people. Dan Stein 6 first. 7 MS. DYSON: No, that's -- 8 MR. ZITTRAIN: Yes. Did you stuff the 9 ballot box, you put your name in twice, or . . .? 10 MR. STEINBERG: Actually, you guys did. 11 So I figure you did -- 12 MR. ZITTRAIN: I must say, it looks 13 like your handwriting on both, but let's not get 14 into that. Dan Stein's opportunity to speak is 15 now waved, but I guess we're fortunate that they 16 were drawn in succession. Very close to each 17 other in the box, I take it. Anyway, go ahead. 18 MR. STEINBERG: All right. I'm 19 actually not going to take all of four minutes. I 20 probably won't need two. All right. I just want 21 to carry on with what Steff said. What we're 22 really talking about is what we feel is a need for 23 accountability. And by accountability, we mean it 24 in a much larger sense than the ability to elect O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 63 1 members of the Board. It means the ability to 2 have some sort of member panel or ADR, a way to 3 get to the Board to get quickly to simple 4 problems, the ability to sue the Board if you 5 don't get that (inaudible), the ability to have 6 oversight other than, in this case, the attorney 7 general of the State of California, ability to 8 have fiscal accountability. That's all we're 9 talking about. They're very, very simple changes 10 we're asking for. Doesn't have to be (inaudible) 11 suggestion, as long as we get the same 12 functionality. 13 MR. ZITTRAIN: Okay. Certainly sounds 14 like lots of those issues will be visited today, 15 at least if you're here to help with it. Any 16 other comments? Okay. Dan Parisi is next, and 17 then we have -- I feel like I'm on talk-back 18 live -- we have an E-mail to read, too. Go ahead, 19 Dan. 20 MR. PARISI: Hello, how are you doing? 21 Many people have been saying for years, that, you 22 know, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts 23 absolutely. Just one thing so people know how 24 much power you actually have in your Board, let's O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 64 1 get a little (inaudible) seen it happen to us in 2 October, and what happened was, for two weeks in 3 October, our site just wouldn't work. And 4 basically what happened was, my engineers from our 5 site and the engineers (inaudible) were fighting 6 each other. My guys were blaming them and they 7 were blaming us. The bottom line was, something 8 either through some kind of problem with the root 9 servers or not, but whatever, it took two weeks to 10 get resolved. Okay? 11 Obviously I know (inaudible) that you 12 guys will have a chokehold on the economy of the 13 United States. But I think people should be very 14 careful in giving you absolute power. And that's 15 one of the things I'm here for, because I just 16 don't think it's right, you know, that the 17 American citizens or people throughout the world, 18 who right now have the U.S. government protecting 19 them, are going to have no protection. And I know 20 -- and I just also don't think that it's right 21 that the U.S. government should be handing you, 22 you know, all this power, which basically says to 23 me that they're trying to privatize government 24 actions. O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 65 1 And it seems very analogous to what 2 happened in the fifties when the states themselves 3 tried to do the same thing, when they tried to get 4 around the Constitution and get around the 14th 5 amendment by trying to privatize the schools. I 6 think people should look very closely at you, and 7 even though I think you all are very nice people, 8 I just worry about the power situation. And I 9 just hope, you know, that everyone will have the 10 power of free speech and so forth, because I don't 11 want to have something happen that happened in 12 Korea where people got jailed for saying something 13 bad about the government. 14 And one of the first things that -- 15 letters I got when we first opened our site was 16 from somebody in China in which (inaudible), 17 because if he did it right now, he'd be going to 18 jail. I hope everybody makes sure they understand 19 that. 20 MS. DYSON: How did you get your 21 problem resolved? 22 MR. PARISI: We just -- it just went 23 away. It was very weird. As I said, it was like 24 they were blaming us, my engineers were blaming O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 66 1 them. And for two weeks, we had maybe ten percent 2 of our business. Nothing -- it was ridiculous. 3 But it took almost two or three weeks. We didn't 4 even notice at the beginning, because our servers 5 (inaudible) serves and it just -- we just noticed 6 it, then it took two weeks. So people should 7 understand that could happen -- you know, if 8 somebody has a chokehold, the same thing can 9 happen. 10 MS. DYSON: So did the U.S. government 11 help to -- 12 MR. PARISI: No, it just -- the problem 13 went away. No one could figure out exactly why 14 the problem happened. 15 MR. ZITTRAIN: It's amazing, just 16 waiting a while sometimes actually works to make 17 the problem go away. 18 MS. DYSON: Interesting question worth 19 addressing. 20 MR. ZITTRAIN: Yeah. Sounds very much 21 more along the lines of Ronda's thesis, too. 22 Next, Carl Oppendahl coming from the Net. I hope 23 I didn't mispronounce the name too poorly. He 24 says (Reading): O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 67 1 "The latest NSI contract 2 says by November 1, 1998, 3 NSI shall provide 4 functional and interface 5 specifications for the 6 shared registration system 7 and a milestone schedule 8 for its development and 9 implementation. NSI says 10 it provided the spec, but 11 refuses to let the Internet 12 community see the spec. 13 Will ICANN permit the 14 Internet community to see 15 the spec that NSI 16 provided?" 17 MR. ROBERTS: The spec was provided to 18 the Department of Commerce on schedule in 19 accordance with the amendment to the agreement, 20 and as such, it is the Department of Commerce's 21 agency which takes the next steps. My 22 understanding is that this is not involving a 23 secret, and in fact that the amendment to 24 agreement with the government and NSI executed O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 68 1 provides that a panel of experts will be created 2 within the next thirty or sixty days to go over 3 that spec. But that -- you know, the Department 4 of Commerce is the present custodian of the spec, 5 and they're working on how to get that into the 6 hands of the right people. 7 MS. DYSON: Will that be our 8 responsibility once the transition is complete? 9 MR. ROBERTS: My understanding is that 10 the agreements that are contemplated between the 11 government and ICANN and between ICANN and NSI 12 will have that result. 13 MS. DYSON: Okay. Which means in the 14 end, that will be something that we probably will 15 have to get involved in and figure out what is 16 proprietary and what is -- 17 MR. ROBERTS: I don't want to be opaque 18 about this. It's very obvious that one of the 19 objectives of the whole white-paper process is to 20 end up with a system that has competitive 21 registration services. The mechanics of that are 22 not spelled out on the white paper, and 23 consequently the community is going to have to 24 work on that. There are people in that business O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 69 1 now all over the world. Obviously their success 2 or lack of success and what documentation -- I 3 mean record they are using and how they're doing 4 they're business will have a big effect on how 5 ICANN implements the commitment for those 6 services. 7 MR. ZITTRAIN: Next up, Heather Boyles. 8 MS. BOYLES: My name is Heather Boyles. 9 I'm here to make comments on behalf of the 10 University Corporation for Advanced Internet 11 Development. 12 MR. ZITTRAIN: If you can speak up, 13 too -- 14 MS. BOYLES: Sorry. 15 MR. ZITTRAIN: -- just to make sure 16 that . . . 17 MS. BOYLES: I'm here on behalf of the 18 University Corporation for Advanced Internet 19 Development, U.K., which is a not-for-profit 20 corporation that is primarily -- whose members are 21 primarily research universities here in the U.S. 22 along with our industrial and other not-for-profit 23 partners. All of the members are engaged in the 24 Internet team project to develop next-generation O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 70 1 Internet technology and applications. Our 2 comments are in support of ICANN and the process 3 by which the organization now exists. We commend 4 the efforts of the organization to continue -- in 5 the past and to continue to consider public 6 interest and comments. We believe and our 7 organization and our Board of Directors believes 8 that an international not-for-profit corporation 9 is the most appropriate vehicle to ensure the 10 stability and robustness of the environment for 11 this very crucial piece of the Internet 12 infrastructure. 13 And we also support the notion that the 14 by-laws have made the very best -- in the by-laws, 15 the Board has made its very best effort to strike 16 a balance between effective representation and the 17 ability to move in a timely and decisive manner. 18 We understand that the membership issue is still 19 under discussion, and to the extent that we can be 20 helpful in providing advice on membership, we will 21 do so in the process that's been established. 22 Thank you. 23 MR. ZITTRAIN: Thank you. 24 MS. DYSON: Thank you. Just how to do O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 71 1 membership is under discussion. Membership itself 2 is not. 3 MR. ZITTRAIN: Who's up next, scribe? 4 Tom Barrett. 5 MR. BARRETT: Hi. I'm Tom Barrett from 6 a company called Thompson & Thompson. For those 7 of you who don't know us, we are a trademark and 8 copyright research firm, been around for seventy- 9 five years, headquartered here in Quincy, Mass., 10 with major operating centers in Belgium, Tokyo, 11 Japan and scattered around in other places. The 12 Internet is growing up, and obviously that's why 13 all of you are here today. And Web addresses are 14 not just addresses, but increasingly on-line 15 identities as well. That's our interest. We're 16 not lawyers; we're technologists. We don't focus 17 on litigation or dispute resolution; we focus on 18 dispute prevention. And we think that not enough 19 discussion has occurred around this area. 20 I'd like to offer some areas of 21 substance, perhaps. We haven't quite got into 22 these areas yet. (inaudible) nomenclature exists 23 that allow identical names for different 24 industries, such as Delta, McDonald's, etcetera. O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 72 1 And we believe fundamentally that for any commerce 2 to succeed globally, we need to solve the 3 infrastructure of DNS to allow the structure to 4 exist. 5 The Board (inaudible) has us here today 6 is great. We do believe you need some other 7 perspectives. For example, a company such as 8 Thompson & Thompson has probably the largest 9 collection of trademarks in the world, it's an 10 asset that can be applied in solving some of the 11 DNS problems on the Internet. 12 Let me offer three suggestions for 13 discussion. One is a recommendation on how to 14 prevent trademark infringement such as a global 15 directory so that an applicant can understand how 16 you need a distinctive name and, in fact, 17 understand that there's potential infringement 18 litigation in store for them if they proceed with 19 their name. 20 Secondly, perhaps a potential waiting 21 period so we can publish a proposed address for 22 comment. Again, the objective of a waiting period 23 is to protect an applicant from potential 24 litigation later on. No one wants to -- O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 73 1 MR. ZITTRAIN: You might want to go to 2 the third suggestion just to get it on the record. 3 MR. BARRETT: The third suggestion is 4 to ask for additional information at the time of 5 application and understand what the intent of use 6 is for the proposed address. 7 MR. ZITTRAIN: Great, thanks very much. 8 David Schutt? Is David Schutt here? Ahh, there 9 you are. 10 MR. SCHUTT: I'm going to yield my two 11 minutes to Eric Weisberg, who is a better public 12 speaker than I am. 13 MR. ZITTRAIN: This puts us to the 14 transferability question, which was not addressed 15 by the moderator, who now addresses it. Of 16 course, we also have the exception, which was 17 Harold Feld, who spoke and had Jay Fenello speak 18 on his behalf, but saying only what he said. I'm 19 going to make an on-the-flight call. We can't 20 have line-holding by people, so Eric, please 21 deposit your thing in the box. It will be put in 22 the mix immediately. David, is there anything you 23 want to say in the meantime? 24 MR. SCHUTT: No, I'm going to pass. O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 74 1 MR. ZITTRAIN: Okay. On to Don Telage. 2 MR. TELAGE: Thank you. Don Telage 3 from Network Solutions. I'd like to make a couple 4 of points I think that are important and try not 5 to attack the Board. I'll give them a break for 6 two minutes. I'd like to remind us all that the 7 reason we're here is that the mechanism we've had 8 to deal with policy decisions is no longer among 9 us, and we need a better, more robust mechanism to 10 deal with the complete re-commercialization of the 11 Net, and that's what this is all about. ICANN is 12 to develop a mechanism we can all live with 13 (inaudible) policy. This is not a governance 14 body, and I think it's very important that we stop 15 using that term. Okay? This is a mechanism to 16 (inaudible) policy. 17 I want to commend Esther for 18 understanding that the legitimacy of this 19 organization comes bottom-up, but I want to 20 chastise her for not recognizing that its 21 authority does not come from the U.S. government. 22 Okay? Her authority and the authority of this 23 organization will come when it recognizes that 24 through contracts with the suppliers of services O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 75 1 that are now supplying services on the Net, okay, 2 (inaudible) provide stability to the Internet. 3 And that's a very important consideration. That 4 was a model set by the U.S. government in trying 5 to form a contract or a cooperative agreement with 6 NSI. And to that end, I recommend that the U.S. 7 government/ICANN agreement and that the NSI/ICANN 8 agreement both be put out for public comment 9 before they're signed. 10 MR. ZITTRAIN: Who's up next? 11 MS. DYSON: Dan Karenberg. 12 MR. ZITTRAIN: Dan Karenberg. 13 MR. KARENBERG: Thank you. I am Daniel 14 Karenberg. I am representing (inaudible) 15 administration in Europe. We have twelve hundred 16 members from eighty-two countries. We've been 17 doing this since seven years and involving local 18 processes. We are fully supportive of the ICANN 19 Board. Following the untimely passing away of 20 John Costello, we have a number of concerns. One 21 major concern is that there are, indeed, regional 22 processes or policies, I think, in the address 23 area, there's also processes in -- or policies in 24 the protocol area. And we're very much concerned O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 76 1 that these discussions will lead to supplanting 2 those processes with a global process, which will 3 disenfranchise the people in the existing 4 processes and the people participating in them. 5 Our members are very concerned that they may be 6 obliged to participate in a global process in 7 addition to the regional ones. 8 We are also very concerned about the 9 discussion and suggestions being made that the 10 supporting organizations should not appoint 11 members to the ICANN Board. I think it's very 12 important to understand that the legitimacy of 13 ICANN is (inaudible), as a previous speaker has so 14 eloquently said, and that the supporting 15 organizations (inaudible) provide very much -- 16 will provide very much of that (inaudible) will be 17 open to question. 18 MR. ZITTRAIN: Thank you. 19 MS. DYSON: Please make sure you don't 20 leave after lunch. 21 MR. KARENBERG: Obviously not. 22 MR. ZITTRAIN: Who do we have up next? 23 SCRIBE: Nigel Roberts. 24 MR. ZITTRAIN: Nigel Roberts. O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 77 1 MR. ROBERTS: I'm going to proceed on 2 the assumption that this process is all going to 3 work. I noted from the submission of the Boston 4 (inaudible), which I'm not a member and I have no 5 connection with, they propose that Board elections 6 be held by an electoral system in which the result 7 is proportional to and fully representative of the 8 diversity of the electorate. I have to declare an 9 interest in this. I'm a member of another non- 10 profit organization, the Electoral Reform Society 11 of Great Britain, which has many decades of 12 researching and organizing elections on exactly 13 this same system. So it will come as no surprise 14 that I am personally in support of this proposal. 15 I believe SGB also has a long and honorable 16 tradition right here in Cambridge, Massachusetts. 17 Under such a system, minorities, even 18 vocal minorities, can feel that they have 19 influence in direct proportion to their support, 20 or, indeed, the lack of it. It's been very 21 successful in elections in Northern Ireland. And 22 many people know the situation there has also been 23 contentious, to say the least. 24 I'd like last of all to make a O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 78 1 statement that all elections to all ICANN bodies, 2 not just the Board, will use a system, as 3 proposed. of proportional representation. 4 MR. ZITTRAIN: Thank you. I don't 5 know, again, if you want to wait until we get to 6 the representation section which starts at eleven 7 or speak to it now. 8 MS. DYSON: Well, I just want to say 9 one thing that is (inaudible) to them. We will 10 definitely be interested in hearing more about 11 after eleven. We, today, will not make any 12 statements, because in order to do that, we need 13 to have an open sort of -- we need to have a Board 14 meeting that is publicly announced and pre-planned 15 and so forth and so on. So our goal today is to 16 listen to questions, maybe voice our personal 17 opinions, but we can't make any statements. 18 MR. ROBERTS: Of course I accept that 19 and consider the point being made as a strong one. 20 MR. ZITTRAIN: Jonathan Robertson? 21 MR. ROBERTSON: Hi, my name is Jonathan 22 Robertson. I represent a private organization, a 23 domain registry organization in my present 24 capacity as chairman of (inaudible) Council of O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 79 1 Registrars. I want to make a very small 2 statement, essentially commenting that we've been 3 through a long process whereby many of us feel 4 that we could have got here a little faster and a 5 little more efficiently. I'm sure that -- I just 6 feel that we haven't gone fast enough. But the 7 key point is that from this stage, we need to look 8 at an efficient, forward movement and that the 9 question of trust, I have confidence in the Board, 10 will be built in time, and that as far as I 11 believe, that the process -- and I believe I can 12 speak reasonably on behalf of our organization -- 13 that in spite of all our reservations, the essence 14 is that we must move forward. 15 And we'd like to express our support to 16 the Board and their ability to -- or at least give 17 them a chance to take the rest of the Board and 18 make some decisions through which trust will be 19 built. Thank you. 20 MR. ZITTRAIN: Thank you. You'll see 21 on the schedules that we're slated to end this 22 session at 10:45, so we'll draw as many as we 23 figure can fit until that time. Realize also, I 24 think we're going to have some form of additional O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 80 1 at-large consultation rather than just on the 2 agenda items later in the day, and there's also, 3 of course, the ability to put in comments in 4 writing. Anthony Van Covering? 5 MR. VAN COUVERING: Van Couvering, 6 Antony Van Couvering, here representing the IATLD, 7 International Association of (inaudible) Local 8 Domains, and (inaudible). And I have a quick 9 question, then I'd like to follow up. Does the 10 ICANN think that the relation between country code 11 and domain at any time will be governed by a 12 contract directly between the ICANN and the domain 13 administrators? 14 MS. DYSON: We don't know yet, and this 15 is a -- what can I say? This is a complicated 16 issue that at least most of us don't quite 17 understand. We're eager to understand it better. 18 It's clear it's something that falls in our court 19 somehow. It's not on the agenda today, because 20 it's not -- it's not even part of the by-laws or 21 some of the structural issues, but it's an issue 22 we need to deal with. And we will welcome 23 submissions, comments, information, arguments. 24 Clearly we're going to have to have some open O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 81 1 meetings on this topic specifically, but we just 2 don't know yet. Personally, I'm actually eager to 3 tackle this, because I think it's a very 4 interesting, important, complex -- and again, 5 we're going to have to be perceived to be fair. 6 MR. VAN COUVERING: I'd like to follow 7 that up by just saying that in the past, obviously 8 this has all been handled rather privately by John 9 Costello and, indeed, he had trust in the matter, 10 although I can't say not without flaws. The way 11 that domain administrators, most of them, anyway, 12 have worked is by using RFC, which provides them 13 some protections in the code and conduct. And we 14 would very much like to see that established in 15 some specific way in the ICANN by-laws and in some 16 written way so that these people can get on with 17 their job and not feel threatened by instability 18 and the introduction of new powers that they have 19 not had to deal with in the past. 20 MR. ZITTRAIN: Thank you. Do we have a 21 next? Richard Foreman. 22 MR. FOREMAN: Good morning. My name is 23 Richard Foreman. I am president and CEO of 24 Register.com. First I want to say thank you to O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 82 1 the Board. I think you're doing a great public 2 service, and I don't envy you at all. Part of 3 ICANN's power and authority is deriving probably 4 from the U.S. government, but also from 5 (inaudible) Internet. 6 And since ICANN will be assuming the 7 role of the -- assuming the power that the U.S. 8 government had previously, I would like to give a 9 recommendation that ICANN commit itself to the 10 entire cooperative agreement, most specifically to 11 the most recent one, which was amendment number 11 12 to the cooperative agreement which someone had 13 brought up before, Carl Oppendahl in an E-mail, 14 that by November 1, the NSI will submit the specs, 15 which they have done; but more importantly, that 16 by March 31st, there will be five new registrars 17 interfacing to the NSI shared registration system. 18 And ICANN, assuming the role of Newco, is going to 19 be choosing those five new registrars. And I just 20 want to recommend strongly that ICANN commit 21 itself to that time table. 22 MR. ZITTRAIN: Anybody? 23 MS. DYSON: I believe it's a commitment 24 that we will inherit, we can -- yeah, it's -- O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 83 1 right now it's going to be part of our negotiation 2 with the government. 3 MR. VAN COUVERING: But according to 4 amendment number eleven, I believe that it does 5 specifically say that Newco will assume the rights 6 and the responsibilities that were previously or 7 currently are handled by the Department of 8 Commerce. 9 MS. DYSON: Right. 10 MR. VAN COUVERING: Thank you. 11 MR. ZITTRAIN: We have time for one 12 more name, and then we're going to move on. Tony 13 Rutkowski. 14 MR. RUTKOWSKI: Tony Rutkowski. 15 Pleased to be here. I'm interested in 16 particularly following up on a couple of points. 17 One is that the Internet is a private shared user 18 network legally, and this (inaudible) very 19 significantly to the question of the authority. 20 The authority does not come from the United States 21 government or ICANN. I believe the government 22 representative made that fairly clear yesterday 23 and that shouldn't be complicated. 24 It shouldn't be complicated for yet O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 84 1 another reason, which is, the United States do not 2 have the authority over the Internet (inaudible), 3 these are not sovereign domains and that legally, 4 there really is a separate route over which 5 (inaudible) specifications. And in that domain 6 name system which exists in a parallel universe 7 and for which there are gateways (inaudible). I 8 think this is an extraordinarily important 9 question for the future. Thank you. 10 MR. ZITTRAIN: Any comments? 11 AUDIENCE: Point or order. Ten minutes 12 was taken with the logistics for the Board, I 13 think. Can we have five more speakers? 14 MR. ZITTRAIN: Which is to say I 15 blabbed too long. It's amazing that we're 16 actually on schedule, and with the indulgence of 17 the Board, I'm happy to have two more names drawn 18 to take up the time I spent just talking about 19 logistics. Wow, we get to take a vote. All 20 right, the way to do this, all those in favor of 21 taking another few minutes say aye. 22 (Responses) 23 MR. ZITTRAIN: All those who want to 24 break right now say nay. O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 85 1 (Responses) 2 MR. ZITTRAIN: The ayes have it, in the 3 opinion of the chair. We have several more 4 speakers. Which is to say the interim moderator, 5 not the chair. Mark Luker and Jay Hauben. 6 MR. LUKER: Good morning. I'm Mark 7 Luker. I speak for Educause (phonetic). We're a 8 non-profit association of sixteen hundred colleges 9 and universities. We focus on how information and 10 technology can be used to transform higher 11 education, teaching, learning, research, 12 operations. Today this focus is on the Internet. 13 We've also been central figures in the development 14 of the campus networks and our regional networks. 15 Our members believe that the present 16 Board, the interim Board and the by-laws are an 17 excellent start. We would urge that we get on 18 with this business. 19 MR. ZITTRAIN: Thank you. Okay, 20 Hauben. Ahh, perfect. 21 MR. HAUBEN: I believe the draw was 22 fixed and that the names were not what were on the 23 paper, but I'll speak in any case. The -- 24 MR. ZITTRAIN: Are you saying you don't O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 86 1 want your time? 2 MR. HAUBEN: I'll take my time. The 3 big problem we face is that there's no one 4 representing the public essence of the Internet 5 and the public. And by the public, I mean the 6 students, the senior citizens, E-mail users, the 7 medical students, the library patrons and all the 8 people who look to the Internet as a 9 communications medium. It's not IT, it's CT, 10 communications technology. That's what people 11 need, that's what people want and that's what's 12 left out of this. 13 I think that the problem is, it's a 14 Constitutional crisis in the United States, 15 because the executive branch is willing to, 16 without legal authority and without Constitutional 17 authority, suggest this process, encouraging -- 18 (inaudible) purpose to this Board, with the result 19 that we're facing congressional branch 20 (inaudible). And I think that Newco is not 21 (inaudible), it hasn't been given that right, it 22 won't be given that right if Congress finds that 23 the process has been inappropriate or if the point 24 is made that there is no authority, which there is O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 87 1 none. And I'd like anybody on the Board to state 2 what Constitutional legal authority there is for 3 the government to do what it's doing. 4 But what I'd like to do is ask the 5 Board to respect the U.S. Constitution and to 6 respect the people of the world and to do what the 7 Supreme Court did when the government was doing 8 unconstitutional things, it asked it to step down. 9 So I would ask the Board to consider stepping 10 down, because that will give encouragement and 11 strength to those who want to see something 12 better. We want to see the international and the 13 public Internet grow and spread. The world 14 network that doesn't have classes on it is what 15 serves people, and that's what's at stake. 16 MR. ZITTRAIN: Thank you. Any 17 response? 18 MS. DYSON: Well, I've certainly 19 considered stepping down, because I'd like to -- I 20 like to keep an open mind. But as someone 21 watching this process first from outside and now 22 from inside, as someone who wrote a book targeted 23 at those same consumers, workers, teachers -- 24 MR. HAUBEN: Those are not consumers. O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 88 1 They're not consuming when -- 2 MS. DYSON: Excuse me, please read my 3 book. 4 MR. ZITTRAIN: He has fifteen seconds. 5 I mean, come on. 6 MR. HAUBEN: Don't turn this into a 7 business. We're not doing business, we're 8 communicating. When we communicate, we don't have 9 a product, we're not buying and selling something. 10 You can't bring this to people that have no money 11 to buy it. They can't be consumers. You're 12 looking at school kids who can't be consumers. 13 You're looking at a world of people who are using 14 this for communication. So (inaudible) consumer 15 leads us to a buying/selling network. We want a 16 communications network. 17 MS. DYSON: Excuse me, I didn't finish 18 my list, which included citizens, people in 19 eastern Europe who have no money, people who are 20 more interested in a water supply than in a Net 21 supply. Anyway, yes, I considered stepping down, 22 but I thought better of it, because -- 23 MR. HAUBEN: Can you show me where in 24 the Constitution there's the authority for the O'BRIEN & LEVINE COURT REPORTING SERVICES 89 1 government to do what it's doing? 2 MS. DYSON: It's -- it's -- 3 MR. ZITTRAIN: At this moment, we 4 appear to have adjourned ourselves into group 5 discussion. I now ratify that decision by saying 6 that this part of the meeting is in recess. We'll 7 reconvene at 11:05 here to start the structured 8 agenda points. Thank you. 9 (Whereupon a recess was 10 held. Meeting resumed at 11 11:13 a.m.)
For additional information, please contact:
Wendy Seltzer, Ben Edelman, Alexander Macgillivray, and Antoun Nabhan.
Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard Law School