Bobbi Kurshan Interview Notes - August 17, 2009
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Conducted with Erhardt Graeff via telephone on August 17, 2009
Interviewee
Bobbi Kurshan
Executive Director, Curriki
Email: bkurshan [at] curriki [dot] org
Notes
Talking with Publishers
- Bobbi has been talking (aggressively) to publishers for a long time
- She feels Curriki will not be the final solution, nor will textbook publishers go away
- There needs to be a cooperative model for publishers with OER communities: similar to Redhat/Linux and Sun/Java
- One good reason: textbook companies speed up delivery
- NOTE: CK-12 hasn't engaged community as much as they are
KEY POINT: Curriki/OER will never widely distribute “textbooks”, in the traditional sense, no matter how open or ubiquitous OER getsâprint is not an option (impossible cost)
Four things OER can't do
- Never print books
- Textbook companies will be better at assessment: content and achievement
- Not in the business of professional development
- Managing intellectual property rights across multiple sources/licenses
- e.g. Curriki can't offer hybrids of traditional textbooks + curricula online
Potential Partnership Model
Open Source imprints at publishing companies could support OER communities to:
- Lower overall costs
- Drive innovation in adoption policy states
Reflecting on the California Digital Textbook Initiative
- Key Policy Point: California reduced adoption process timeline form 6 to 2 years
- Curriki did poorly on content review, particularly in comparison to CK-12 , because the latter pays people to write their books
- Curriki doesn't pay, nor does it focus on the textbook format as an end product
- Curriki originally wasn't going to submit to California's Initiative because they don't agree with the model
- However, California Secretary of Education Glen Thomas is on Curriki's Board of Advisors and wanted Curriki to have a seat at the table
- KEY ISSUE: California didn't engage community (state educators or OER, generally) on this; Curriki contends that the community should be improving it
Community Building
- Curriki has been aggressive in recruiting members
- Viral marketing via social media, newsletters, e-mail
- Average of 1500 members register a week, 4-5000 members register a month
- 10% are relatively active
- Relatively active “engage” for: 2-3 visits a week, 2-3 pages viewed, 7-8 minutes on the site
- The percentage has been constant, when total membership was 40,000 or 80,00 -- can't seem to push it higher
Curriki quantifies its content by assets
- Recent Numbers: 30,000 assets; 10% are full courses
- Flat World Knowledge and CK-12 use “chapters”
- SIDE NOTE: CK-12 assumes people will come because their books are effective
- Goal is to eventually have templates for assets
- Core content criteria (WAITING ON FURTHER DETAILS)
- 4-6 weeks of instruction
- Covers set standards part of core standards approach
- Originally, Curriki defined content at the “course” level, but teachers want just lesson plans
- LOGIC: teacher facing site; tools are designed for teachers
On (Curriki) Content for Students
Two Approaches
- Render them in digital content usable for students
- Perhaps launch student site so that they can access resources
KEY OER QUESTION
Should digital materials be interactive?
- Curriki wants animation and video
- What technology is necessary?
- Content should be rendered so that teachers can use it online or print it
- PROBLEM: California law has not changed to say textbook money can't be spent on other options
Bobbi thinks there will be a paradigm shift in about 5 years
- PROBLEM or NOT?: schools might be bypassing technology needs right now and assuming that students will bring their own Kindle, netbook, XO laptop, etc.
- She believes this tech will become so cheap that students WILL buy those materials
- Scholarships (public funds) then available for students who can't afford it
Curriki has 2 main parts to its mission
- Address teacher effectiveness
- Curriki was made as a teacher site not a content site (even though teachers use it that way)
- Reduce cost and engage schools in making decisions that are more ubiquitous
- Not bent on eliminating dollars for publishers; “Publishers are Friends not Foes” (paraphrased)
Public Policy Wishes
- Bobbi wants every single project funded by the government to make materials/content available as open-source, i.e. NIH's open access mandate rather than NSF's funding outcomes
- Shift in Teacher Education: Schools of Education should ensure that teachers coming out have more involvement in curriculum creation; Curriki's grant from the Hearst Foundation focuses on this
Funding Opportunity from Paul Buchheit of FriendFeed
- How ubiquitous viral marketing can be effective: Paul asked for ideas on where to give his money
- Chronicle of Philanthropy: David and Goliath, Clinton Global Initiative is #1 and Curriki is #2
- OER community is supportive of this kind of philanthropic endeavor (other communities have voted up Curriki)
Problems Between OER Projects
- ccLearn's OpenEd portal is still just a linked list not persistent
- Are linked lists a model that will work? (MERLOT?)
- Can we build a technology that crawls the web and knows what is out there?
- KEY PROBLEM: Interoperability issues
- Are there ways to create interoperability with Curriki and Connexions?
- Connexions wants people to adopt CNX as a platform and use it his way (adoptable distribution channel versus purely a content source); QUESTION: How does Curriki get that content?
- CK-12 wants all things licensed as Creative Commons Share-Alike
- To use the content, Curriki would have to manage separate licenses (CC-BY-SA & CC-BY)
- CC-SA reduces remix functionality (Curriki would have to separate content on the website)
- SUMMARY: OER Issues
- Connexions focuses on platform over content
- CK-12 has a more restrictive CC-BY-SA license
- Curriki allows for a multitude of file types which make it hard to move around
- OER Projects are all chasing the same money
- 3 Revenue Sources: rich geeks, foundations, and corporations
- Founder of CK-12 originally planned to donate and work with Connexions, same with Curriki, then started her own
- Right now, foundations are reducing spending
- SIDE NOTE: Curriki was funded by the Gates Foundation to craft a strategic plan
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