Bobbi Kurshan Interview Notes - August 17, 2009

Conducted with Erhardt Graeff via telephone on August 17, 2009

Interviewee

Bobbi Kurshan
Executive Director, Curriki
Email: bkurshan [at] curriki [dot] org

Notes

Talking with Publishers

• Bobbi has been talking (aggressively) to publishers for a long time
• She feels Curriki will not be the final solution, nor will textbook publishers go away
• There needs to be a cooperative model for publishers with OER communities: similar to Redhat/Linux and Sun/Java
• One good reason: textbook companies speed up delivery
• NOTE: CK-12 hasn't engaged community as much as they are

KEY POINT

Curriki/OER will never widely distribute “textbooks”, in the traditional sense, no matter how open or ubiquitous OER gets—print is not an option (impossible cost)

Four things OER can't do

• Never print books
• Textbook companies will be better at assessment: content and achievement
• Not in the business of professional development
• Managing intellectual property rights across multiple sources/licenses
  • e.g. Curriki can't offer hybrids of traditional textbooks + curricula online

Potential Partnership Model

Open Source imprints at publishing companies could support OER communities to:

• • Lower overall costs
  • Drive innovation in adoption policy states

Reflecting on the California Digital Textbook Initiative

• Key Policy Point: California reduced adoption process timeline form 6 to 2 years
• Curriki did poorly on content review, particularly in comparison to CK-12 , because the latter pays people to write their books
  • Curriki doesn't pay, nor does it focus on the textbook format as an end product
• Curriki originally wasn't going to submit to California's Initiative because they don't agree with the model
  • However, California Secretary of Education Glen Thomas is on Curriki's Board of Advisors and wanted Curriki to have a seat at the table
• KEY ISSUE: California didn't engage community (state educators or OER, generally) on this; Curriki contends that the community should be improving it

Community Building

• Curriki has been aggressive in recruiting members
• Viral marketing via social media, newsletters, e-mail
• Average of 1500 members register a week, 4-5000 members register a month
  • 10% are relatively active
  • Relatively active “engage” for: 2-3 visits a week, 2-3 pages viewed, 7-8 minutes on the site
  • The percentage has been constant, when total membership was 40,000 or 80,00 -- can't seem to push it higher

Curriki quantifies its content by assets

• Recent Numbers: 30,000 assets; 10% are full courses
• Flat World Knowledge and CK-12 use “chapters”

  SIDE NOTE: CK-12 assumes people will come because their books are effective

• Goal is to eventually have templates for assets
• Core content criteria (WAITING ON FURTHER DETAILS)
  • 4-6 weeks of instruction
  • Covers set standards part of core standards approach
• Originally, Curriki defined content at the “course” level, but teachers want just lesson plans
• LOGIC: teacher facing site; tools are designed for teachers

On (Curriki) Content for Students

Two Approaches

• Render them in digital content usable for students
• Perhaps launch student site so that they can access resources

KEY OER QUESTION

Should digital materials be interactive?

• Curriki wants animation and video
• What technology is necessary?
  • Content should be rendered so that teachers can use it online or print it
  • PROBLEM: California law has not changed to say textbook money can't be spent on other options

Bobbi thinks there will be a paradigm shift in about 5 years

• PROBLEM or NOT?: schools might be bypassing technology needs right now and assuming that students will bring their own Kindle, netbook, XO laptop, etc.
• She believes this tech will become so cheap that students WILL buy those materials
• Scholarships (public funds) then available for students who can't afford it

Curriki has 2 main parts to its mission

1. Address teacher effectiveness

   Curriki was made as a teacher site not a content site (even though teachers use it that way)

2. Reduce cost and engage schools in making decisions that are more ubiquitous

   Not bent on eliminating dollars for publishers; “Publishers are Friends not Foes” (paraphrased)

Public Policy Wishes

• Bobbi wants every single project funded by the government to make materials/content available as open-source, i.e. NIH's open access mandate rather than NSF's funding outcomes
• Shift in Teacher Education: Schools of Education should ensure that teachers coming out have more involvement in curriculum creation; Curriki's grant from the Hearst Foundation focuses on this

Funding Opportunity from Paul Buchheit of FriendFeed

• How ubiquitous viral marketing can be effective: Paul asked for ideas on where to give his money
• Chronicle of Philanthropy: David and Goliath, Clinton Global Initiative is #1 and Curriki is #2
• OER community is supportive of this kind of philanthropic endeavor (other communities have voted up Curriki)

Problems Between OER Projects

• ccLearn's OpenEd portal is still just a linked list not persistent
  • Are linked lists a model that will work? (MERLOT?)
  • Can we build a technology that crawls the web and knows what is out there?
• KEY PROBLEM: Interoperability issues
  • Are there ways to create interoperability with Curriki and Connexions?
  • Connexions wants people to adopt CNX as a platform and use it his way (adoptable distribution channel versus purely a content source); QUESTION: How does Curriki get that content?
  • CK-12 wants all things licensed as Creative Commons Share-Alike
    • To use the content, Curriki would have to manage separate licenses (CC-BY-SA & CC-BY)
    • CC-SA reduces remix functionality (Curriki would have to separate content on the website)
  • SUMMARY: OER Issues
    • Connexions focuses on platform over content
    • CK-12 has a more restrictive CC-BY-SA license
    • Curriki allows for a multitude of file types which make it hard to move around
• OER Projects are all chasing the same money
• 3 Revenue Sources: rich geeks, foundations, and corporations
  • Founder of CK-12 originally planned to donate and work with Connexions, same with Curriki, then started her own
  • Right now, foundations are reducing spending

    SIDE NOTE: Curriki was funded by the Gates Foundation to craft a strategic plan

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