RE: [dvd-discuss] [OT] Money-where-your-mouth-is department

[Joshua Stratton <cpt(at)gryphon.auspice.net>]

The seminal First Sale case you're thinking of is Bobbs-Merrill v. 
Strauss, 210 US 339 (1908) IIRC. Although it is a Constitutional doctrine 
and thus perhaps not revocable by Congress, they apparently codified it in 
the 1909 Copyright Act.

The key regarding this instance is whether the grant of copying and 
sharing rights in exchange for first sale rights is the proper 
interpretation of the license language and would be enforcable. It's a 
pretty standard EULA sort of case, which is to say, totally unresolved. ;)

Does anyone here know someone at Baen? Perhaps they'd be willing to 
correct the language in the future if they didn't mean for this 
interpretation.

Again of course, I would note that Baen is apparently better than most of
the publishers of various works we discuss here.

On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Michael A Rolenz wrote:

> Whether you bought Book+CD or bonus CD free is not relevant. A bonus CD 
> Free is still a gratuitous transfer of ownership but title has been 
> passed. The object is now personal property. Personal property can be 
> disposed of in anyway one desires.. As for the terms writting when bought. 
> IS the buyer to negociate a contract? Or do we uphold the validity of 
> shrinkwrap licenses....
> 
> Let's consider another hypothetical...there once was this company that had 
> a great idea. They mailed out in Forbes magazine these scanners. They gave 
> them away at RadioShafts. They mailed them to people who requested them. 
> ANd then when people started to use them in ways they didn't like they 
> mailed out a bunch of letters saying "you are violating our intellectual 
> property. We didn't give you authorization to reverse engineer our 
> product"...starts to sound a little too close for my comfort...
> 
> I can't remember the case name (Straus vs ?) involving the price of books 
> around the turn of the (LAST!) century. The publisher put a little notice 
> in them saying "this book cannot be sold at any price lower than the cover 
> price". The courts denied that. Similar reasoning may apply here (but I 
> don't remember the case exactly right now to look it up.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Richard Hartman <hartman@onetouch.com>
> Sent by: owner-dvd-discuss@eon.law.harvard.edu
> 10/11/2002 01:04 PM
> Please respond to dvd-discuss
> 
>  
>         To:     "'dvd-discuss@eon.law.harvard.edu'" <dvd-discuss@eon.law.harvard.edu>
>         cc:     owner-dvd-discuss@eon.law.harvard.edu
>         Subject:        RE: [dvd-discuss] [OT] Money-where-your-mouth-is department
> 
> 
> One can separate the purchase by the terms written
> on the item being bought.  Was there a price on
> the book?  Was there a price on the CD?  Did you
> pay a combined price, or the price of the book alone?
> Was there language saying "book+cd" or "bonus CD free"?
> 
> 
> -- 
> -Richard M. Hartman
> hartman@onetouch.com
> 
> 186,000 mi/sec: not just a good idea, it's the LAW!
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael A Rolenz [mailto:Michael.A.Rolenz@aero.org]
> > Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 12:19 PM
> > To: dvd-discuss@eon.law.harvard.edu
> > Cc: 'dvd-discuss@eon.law.harvard.edu';
> > owner-dvd-discuss@eon.law.harvard.edu
> > Subject: RE: [dvd-discuss] [OT] Money-where-your-mouth-is department
> > 
> > 
> > HOw can one separate the purchase? When one buys a book, is 
> > one purchasing 
> > the pages but not the cover? What of the dust jacket? The CD 
> > is contained 
> > in the purchased package and becomes personal property that 
> > can be used or 
> > disposed with or without the book.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Richard Hartman <hartman@onetouch.com>
> > Sent by: owner-dvd-discuss@eon.law.harvard.edu
> > 10/11/2002 09:40 AM
> > Please respond to dvd-discuss
> > 
> > 
> >         To:     "'dvd-discuss@eon.law.harvard.edu'" 
> > <dvd-discuss@eon.law.harvard.edu>
> >         cc: 
> >         Subject:        RE: [dvd-discuss] [OT] 
> > Money-where-your-mouth-is department
> > 
> > 
> > But you did not buy the CD.  You bought the book.
> > The CD was a free accompanyment.  Hence first sale
> > might apply to the book, but not the CD!
> > 
> > If you sell the book, you would be perfectly free
> > to give the CD away along with it ...
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > -Richard M. Hartman
> > hartman@onetouch.com
> > 
> > 186,000 mi/sec: not just a good idea, it's the LAW!
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Joshua Stratton [mailto:cpt@gryphon.auspice.net]
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 7:36 PM
> > > To: DVD-Discuss
> > > Subject: Re: [dvd-discuss] [OT] Money-where-your-mouth-is department
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Nevertheless, I don't care for the imposition on the 
> > > first-sale rights of 
> > > the CD. It's great that noncommercial copying and sharing is 
> > > permitted, 
> > > but you might like to resell the original CD sometime, even 
> > > if you cannot 
> > > resell the copies from it.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On 10 Oct 2002, D. C. Sessions wrote:
> > > 
> > > > This week I picked up a copy of David Weber's new Honor Harrington
> > > > story, _War_of_Honor_.  In the back there's this CD from Baen
> > > > Books.  On examination, it contains 38 plain-HTML books, including
> > > > all of the other books in the Honor Harrington univers, plus filk,
> > > > artwork, supplemental material, etc.
> > > > 
> > > > The T&C?  As printed on the CD, "This disk and its contents may
> > > > be copied and shared but NOT sold."
> > > > 
> > > > That's it.  *Thirty-eight* freaking full books, including best
> > > > sellers, all in plain file formats with no monkey business,
> > > > and Baen *wants* people to 'pirate' it.  From the website, it's
> > > > because Baen has hard, cold, cash records proving that every
> > > > time they turn loose an electronic copy of a story the sales
> > > > go up, not only for that one but for others by the same author.
> > > > 
> > > > I *so* want Jim Baen to testify before Congress.
> > > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > | The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to 
> > > the strong. |
> > > > | Because the slow, feeble old codgers like me cheat. 
> > >          |
> > > > +--------------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> 
> > > --------------+
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
>