November 14 2007 Conference Call

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Conference Call Notes

Drafted by Joe Andrieu, November 14, 2007


  1. vrm at

Other Calls

Category:conference call


  • Joe Andrieu
  • Dean Landsman
  • Iain Henderson
  • Charles Andres
  • Chris Carfi
  • Drummond Reed
  • Alan Mitchell


Wither Inverse of CRM

Should VRM be constrained/defined by calling in the inverse of CRM?

Inverse is an easy introduction, but has limits.

Circular buying process, ignorance, education, transaction, to sustained relationship. Otherwise we get laser focused on the transaction... and we need a broader palette (and palate!).

Definitely need to be more than transaction.

At the same time, the reciprocal of CRM, if viewed as Marketing, Sales, and Customer Support, itemizes three foci, entirely from the vendors perspectives. And yet, if we look at it from the individual's perspective, those are not necessarily the things we are looking for.

Agenda Items for F2F

Mission Plan Org. Structure The Alan Document

Public Call?

November 21 is the next public call. We will open it to a wider group. We discussed the challenges of that and generally agreed to try managing trollish behavior on an exception basis. If that becomes too much, we can revise our approach.

Alan Document

Organized by "Modules". But in some conversations, we prioritize by Use Case. In other cases, it's Standards. Which should it be?

Historically, a lot of standards actually start as products.

One challenge with "standards" is that no matter how much you have in place, you still need to impact business practices, not just bits on the wire. Typically one company starts to get traction and starts pushing a particular implementation /as standard/...

The earlier we get to the VRM principles that we won't sacrifice.

Then we can work through specific use cases.

Use cases always come first to spec the set of things we want to cover. But with XRI/XDI we had way too many use cases, so after 4-5 months we had to reduce to a set of principles and build from there.

There are multiple technologies we can use to implement particular practices. As long as we can come up with how compliance can be measured.

Technology looking for a market. Product/market fit is the critical item. AttentionTrust, APML, OpenSocial, Jabber, PKI. Use cases is what made user-identity work in contrast to what came before.

Use cases that answer questions of how do we do a particular use case with a particular module? This will ultimately be an iterative process... the more we learn about use cases, the clearer we see the modules which help us understand the use cases better.

Let's put together a list on the wiki of potential use case and vet, explicitly, which are potential VRM and which are not--and why. That will boil down to a specific set of principles pretty quickly.

Next Meeting

November 28, 2007