Re: [h2o-discuss] low profile

[Manuel Gutierrez Algaba <irmina@ctv.es>]

On Sun, 31 Oct 1999, Jon Garfunkel wrote:

> Manuel Gutierrez Algaba wrote:
> >Yes, for a time I've been watching Raymond, and I definetely think
> >he's a kind of playboy of "Open Software" ( whatever it means). 
> >Raymond is unable to any major work, so he has to do his best
> >in being a braggart.
> 
> I don't see how your value judgement about Eric Raymond's
> pretenstion is applicable here. He's worked on many
>  software projects,
>and all power to him to work on open-source evangelism.
> 

Obviously, he's done a great job in some projects ( fetchmail
 is his, I use fetchmail *every day*). But It seems clear to me 
that He's trying to convert part of his *hacker status* into 
*Internet guru/big guy*. I'd never deny how valuable his programms 
are. But these are some facts/factoids about him:
- If you closely read the Cathedral and Bazaar, you'll easily 
notice how he flatters Linus, perhaps because he really admires him,
but anyway IMO this is/was a bit opportunistic. Anyway, it's clear
that in the Cathedral and Bazaar is a good opportunity to be 
associated to Linux and Linus ( two cool things, indeed).
- In one conference of Python, some people reported him more busy
about speeches than interested in "programming things".
- Then , that "fight" between him and Richard Stallman.  
- If you analise other of his writings. You see clearly how he's
got to believe he's a kind of Prophet of the New Software. His
analisis are good, but it seems to me that lack a bit of weakness.
I mean, they're written without doubts, it seems that he who wrote
it, wrote it 100 % sure and knowing every reasoning and fact. 
We all know reality is far more complex than Eric's analysis. 

So with these fact(oids) I think he's moving fast into something
I don't like: 
- The professionalization of Open Software 

When I think about Richard Stallman , I see him defending the same
things in the same way as ever. He knows what he wants. You can 
see which his aims are. 
But, since two years ago, with the Linux explosion, some vultures
have been choosing positions:
- The web pages. Just a question: Would it better for all if we 
had different web pages with different contents and contents good
for the people ? A bit of coordination ? No, they act in a very 
different way. If you notice many of them, they aim to be portals ( I
think this is the name), even some of them have been bought for bigger
companies. Other 
have a lot of "institutional" information. And the definitive (sad)
proof is that almost *all* of them provide news. And it's funny,
news are the best way of having people visiting pages with banners
, the best way for  getting money. 
And all of them refuse to work with the rest, why? Obviously it's
a competition. 
Another example is freshmeat, if you look at it, it pays a lot of
attention to big projects, or at least, to projects that seem
to be "winners", I can say this ( perhaps it's just I'm a bit resent of
them) because I've sent some projects of mine and they didn't mention
them.  Well, what's clear it's that Alan Cox may publish 5 Linux
kernel releases in a day, while another people may not get announced
his small,irrelevant (?) work . 

- The sellers of Linux. I do remember quite well, that in the 
beginning it was Slackware, and its tar.gz, truly Slackware still
exist and alien too. But the impact of .deb and .rpms is rather
negative, basically they help the release of binaries ( propietaries
( deb or rpm) ) packages and what's worse, people are forgetting
(not learning) what freedom we have with tar.gz's. Even, I've 
experienced how some free distributions ( Red Hat , mainly) 
have always *minor* problems. 

- But the worse of all  it's the people. Basically are three kinds:
 a) The people who doesn't know: The MP3, ftp client and GNOME crowd
(easily seen in freshmeat ) who consider that Linux is cool because
of gimp and MP3's. These people feeds the commercial, and are the 
biggest part of the non Windows community. 
  b) The people who knows than but doesn't care. Here I include
all the gurus: Stallman, Guido Van Rossum, Larry Wall... They're
busy in their projects, sometimes they're busy establishing 
their own standards, but they lack a global vision or they got it
but they're very busy.
  c) The people who knows and care but lack ability /power. I'm
in this group. I have very clear that the biggest problem ( by far)
now is organization. Many times my problems have been "How can I
do this?", or "damnit I can install that because that library". 
What we lack now is systems of help friendlier than FAQ's and 
to spread the word to commercial world,and turn to the roots:
 Smaller application, reusable ( no kpppd, no gnome specific tools..),
less news and more durable information. www.linuxkb.com seems
a good idea, but when? SEUL seems a good idea to but they've got
proffesionalized and basically they're inactive waiting for the
applications to come. That's another big problem: Real competitive
complex applications ( and free). The problem with people c) is
that have little power and there're few of them.
  d) People who knows and care but GOT a PROFIT of this chaos. 
Eric Raymond knows what's going on and he's got the best posible
possition. He knows that the real war ( helping and making things
more usable ) would finish with the victory of the Free software guys
but that'd give no money to anybody. Instead of that, he's switched
to the other side: Let's make all this a bit commercial, and I'd
show you (big enterprises ) what's all this of free software,
 meanwhile
some dollars in conferences, books... 
It seems to me one billion buffaloes running .... our strength
comes from hundreds of people supplying free sotfware, but is
brute strength enough ? I know the answer : No.

I use TeX,emacs and python,... and what I need is better/simple/more
information to work and better software. I don't need stories
about Cathedrals.

Maybe I'm fully wrong. But ... And sorry if all this sounds a bit
harsh, I can't write otherwise in the Internet, in person I'm a 
bit nicer ( sometimes :P).

> 
> Good question. The only thing I should add is that sponsors
> of discussion group forums ought to make

Comp.text.tex has no sponsor , it has nothing.

> it very clear as to how the IP rights are handled... 
>and perhaps the h2o forum 
>can assign a task force
> to develop to develop these for forum owners.
> 
> List-universe.com is a self-proclaimed "Email List Owner and
> Ezine Publisher Resource Network" which Onelist.com offers as a
>reference. I browsed their site for mentions of copyright;
> very little is
>offered. >From their "List Moderator's FAQ"
>(http://List-Moderators.com/faq/ -- obviously!) : 
>     6.  What are the basic copyright regulations
> for postings and lists?
>     
>     Fair use law allows you to use small bits of
> copyrighted material as long as proper credit is given. 

That's not practical at all. 

> In most cases,
>it's just best to ask the original author for written  permission to
>reprint their works.
That's simply impossible.
> While this site is helpful, it does have the look&feel 
>of a reference for the "home-office market"
> (garish colors, focus on
>advertising, etc.) I would like to see h2o drive 
>something similar for
>the academic (and academic-minded) market.
> 
> Jon
> 
> 

Regards/Saludos
Manolo
-------------
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