User Driven Services - Revision history

BerkmanSysop: UTurn to 1734998400

2025-01-03T22:25:36Z

UTurn to 1734998400

← Older revision	Revision as of 22:25, 3 January 2025
(No difference)

Dsearls: Reverted edits by Hiphopalemi (Talk) to last version by Joe.andrieu

2009-12-01T17:21:00Z

Reverted edits by Hiphopalemi (Talk) to last version by Joe.andrieu

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:21, 1 December 2009
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	Joe was wondering whether you could apply these criteria to Web based activityâ¦ like SMTP or Web Hosting.		Joe was wondering whether you could apply these criteria to Web based activityâ¦ like SMTP or Web Hosting.
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Hiphopalemi at 12:11, 1 December 2009

2009-12-01T12:11:43Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:11, 1 December 2009
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	Joe was wondering whether you could apply these criteria to Web based activityâ¦ like SMTP or Web Hosting.		Joe was wondering whether you could apply these criteria to Web based activityâ¦ like SMTP or Web Hosting.
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Joe.andrieu: Reverted edits by KruGer (Talk) to last version by Judi

2009-12-01T08:35:59Z

Reverted edits by KruGer (Talk) to last version by Judi

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:35, 1 December 2009
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	Joe was wondering whether you could apply these criteria to Web based activityâ¦ like SMTP or Web Hosting.		Joe was wondering whether you could apply these criteria to Web based activityâ¦ like SMTP or Web Hosting.
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KruGer at 11:33, 28 November 2009

2009-11-28T11:33:21Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:33, 28 November 2009
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	Joe was wondering whether you could apply these criteria to Web based activityâ¦ like SMTP or Web Hosting.		Joe was wondering whether you could apply these criteria to Web based activityâ¦ like SMTP or Web Hosting.
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Judi: Added Dan Miller's summary

2009-05-15T22:17:08Z

Added Dan Miller's summary

New page

User Driven Services â Joe Andrieu

Introduced a series of blog posts for user driven services
See blog: [http://blog.joeandrieu.com/]

Issues that arose that led to the idea of user driven services to tackle the general issues of interactions between individuals and a system

See blog for definitions

But in general â a System is something built for a particular goal

User is an individual â not a computer an actual individual

Services is an interaction that creates value

User driven service definition

âServices that maximize value creation by maximizing user control and authority.â

There are a spectrum of possibilities

And there is a continuum of âuser driven servicesâ

You could argue that Google, for instance, is very user drivenâ¦ on a first order level

But they donât conform to many of the characteristics

# impulse form the User
# Control
# Transparcncy
# Data portability
# Service endpoint portability
# Self hosting
# User generativity
# Improvability
# Self-managed identity
# Duty of Care

Question - what do you see as the value of adding all these criteria over the relatively random stuff thatâs going on

Answer from Joe â this is the basis for many conversations. And the conversation regarding VRM was always future. User-driven gives a way to ground it in specific instancesâ¦ like whether a mobile app to tie into a company internet, he wanted to make it more user-driven.

Weâre part of a huge transformation of our society, started with The Enlightenmentâ¦ just figuring out what it means on the internet

Doc: the problem comes up even since Ben Franklinâ¦

Added it includes time travelâ¦ The pace of correspondence is so much faster

Added 4th party discussion makes it more easy to define crisply and clearly

Now we need to define what âfouth party isâ because âvrm is not about user-driven, itâs about how the end-statement changes everything.â Itâs transformational if you can address the end-state

User-driven has instances. Whereas Fourth-party is a category of participant or service provider (not always acting on behalf of the user)

Google figures that they would win in the âopenâ game with their semantic labeling and they expose their APIs to let them

Joe â for Switchbook, we think our algorithms are better.

Issue raised â âUser driven works for some ?? and not othersâ¦

Doc says â the characteristics define a number of bullets that dictate how you let people in without locking them in and locking them down.

Joe â like Umar Haque (phonetic)â¦

He has some this and shares the core tenet that, weâre not doing a moral argument. Weâre coming from the idea that thereâs money left on the table because of faster response time and less waste.

Itâs economically stupid to do it the old way.

Service enpoint portability â you can change service provider without anyting falling apart

Self-hosting = you control the dagt

User-generative = means that the user should be able to add value

Improvability is the âAâ in NEAâ¦

Self managed ID â to be dealt with

Duty of care

Docâs question â who does this apply to? Different users may attach more or less importance to each one

But the service provider has to do them all and be responsive to all requirements and maintain sustainable advantageâ¦ But not locking people in.

1) reprise: Impulse of user - this is not about data miningâ¦ it is about the system responding to a gesture of intent.

The internet is really good at this.

Q: is this really targeting individualsâ¦ The service needs to be at the architectural level and this is about an individual interacting with a service (that could be a 4th party interacting with a 2nd party on behalf of the first party)

E.g. that will come up is a personal RFPâ¦ but it might benefit from group interaction because it could be group buying

e.g. might be eBay because it aggregates a whole lot of sellers.

Alan Mitchell â says that your describing a cell that interacts with a larger organismâ¦

A: This is the pattern of behaviors that make the cell survivable for the organism to live. Itâs that system level that Iâm trying to describe

Doc: a distinction is that we start with the individual (cell) how do we give it the right nutrients to support VRM, not just consumer â like Consumer Reports. Thatâs not are starting point.

Joe: itâs part of our Jui Jitsuâ¦ where we shift the weight.

Don Marti talks about the upside down buyers guide â putting the buyers in control

2) control â Users control the servicesâ¦ E.g. can

Control is not a great word â but the gang put that down. Users should have control

Also comment that service provider should respect the directives of the user.

Issue is whether this expects too much of the user. You could also grant it to tohers.

Doc â we are pouring all sort of responsibility on the usersâ¦ BUT SO ARE VENDORS â with self-service and all. But then again, we can make control as simple as possible.

The issue is whether there is a âstandard default arrangementâ (policies) which is how the things are all the time.

The fact is that if people donât voteâ¦ Theyâre happy.

Itâs something you tackle at the policy levelâ¦ it is distributable, but fluid. Bo said âepisodicâ you care to control what you care about it.

Next up (not discussed ) is âterms of serviceâ that VRM assertsâ¦

â¨Transparency is straightforward â people let you know what they want you to knowâ¦ Alain asked does it apply to all the discounts and incentives etcâ¦

A: this is about increasing value by maximizing control and authority

Q2: this is a principle of design â so it has to do with how the service is designed.

A: well the system does require design..

Q3- therefore the user is not in control and itâs not transparent.

A: the people who design the system define reality. Because weâre using Web technology and thatâs already defvined. But the term âtransparencyâ has a waterâs edge.

But the question is, âWhere do you draw the line?â like motives, margins and incentives are a big part of transparency.

Allainâs answer is that âfor a fourth party serviceâ transpareny has to include motives and incentives.

Is transparency âfull disclosureâ

A: there are five categories of transparencyâ¦

This is a new dimension of the Caveat Emptor akin to the FDA having all the

Transparency is not a âdictateâ it is something that user driven services will need to be survivableâ¦ and it means clear understanding of policy.

Alain â weâre getting to the heart of the organizational world where the vendor needs to assert what it does not intend to be transparent.

Darius â in the real world, the service provider will publish service agreements and people will operate under it and it will either work or it wonât.

It is not the primary place where people make a decision.

Q: is there a registry where people could log on and check

Bill Washburn â there should be a dialogue around a quantitative approach to transparency to a qualitative view regarding âwhat should be the major areas of concern.â

So this will be rescheduled to tomorrow.

Suggestion is to talk about âdefining 4th party services in a way that would have a ârulebookâ with criteria that should be conformed toâ

Joe was wondering whether you could apply these criteria to Web based activityâ¦ like SMTP or Web Hosting.