March 05 2008 Conference Call

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Conference Call Notes

Drafted by Christopher Carfi, March 5, 2008 Added to by Adriana Lukas, March 5, 2008


  1. vrm at

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  • Dean Landsman
  • Adriana Lukas
  • Bart Stevens
  • Charles Andres
  • Iain Henderson
  • Christopher Carfi
  • Keith Hopper
  • Brett McDowell
  • Joe Andrieu

Previous Action Items

  1. Send query on email list about use of main list. Is that working better? - Joe - By Friday Feb 22, 2008
  2. First draft position paper - Dean - By Friday Feb 29, 2008.


Vision Committee (Dean)

  • Ven diagram of individual and enterprise perspectives - the overlap should be larger that than the spare space; much should be shared although different angles
  • Chris joined that group (visions committee) as he understands CRM and its beginnings
  • how code would end up coming into or out of the vision
  • next Wednesday afternoon (12th March) a meeting with, Doc, Keith, Chris and Sean in Cambridge – incorporating user and the enterprise – coding something very vaguely,
  • at the moment too many definitions, bunch of discussions in lots of places
  • need to have some degree of definition otherwise VRM becomes kind of where CRM is i.e. fragmented.

Bart: flagged up a paper about next level of CRM by O'Reilly, which mentions VRM and Doc Searls, business values for a consumer and a value for a vendor Dean: VRM is not just business

Standards Committee (Joe)

  • Drummond and Joe have looked at multiple ways to "name" the users of VRM for the first use case
  • Challenge: Who is the "user" and the conflict with "user-centrism"
  • Resolved -- Broken out to "actors" (people or systems, eg. vendor or individual) and "roles" (e.g. "adressee," who manages his address in the system)
  • Will be looking at the specific Use Cases for the Personal Address Manager service.

Organization Committee (Doc)

  • Dean will wheedle.

Usage Committee (Adriana)

  • Trying to organize people to get together F2F
  • Doing monthly get-togethers in London
  • Organizing a smaller gathering on 15April in London (goal: identify problems that VRM can address for real people)
  • "I don't talk to companies, I talk to people within companies" - connecting people who might be interested in the concepts of VRM
  • Goal - open doors

Compliance Committee (Iain)

  • One option on table to outsource compliance to Liberty Alliance, but more discussion needed.


  • European Meeting last week - part of monthly VRM Hub social meetings in London. Next one is on 27th March, 2008.

  • Scratch your VRM Itch, 15-April-2008 in London - Adriana
    • For those who have been following VRM for a while
    • For those who want to make VRM work
    • For users, no agenda, user-driven
    • Sort of like IIW, but without presentations
    • Most attendees will already know each other
    • Approximately 35 attendees
  • Upcoming EU Identity Conference in Munich
    • 22April to 25April
    • "VRM day" will likely be 22April
  • June Workshop - still trying to set dates, likely in Boston

Open Discussion

  • Dean is looking for examples of VRM or things that are like VRM, even if those examples predate the term VRM itself in order to start a file of these examples.
    • Eventful Demand - aggregate user demand to find enough value to have performers show up
  • IT and such
    • Kevin Marks looking at Google Groups
    • It appears people are signed/signed up, but can't sign in
  • Overlap with Data Portability
    • Both need to start with user
    • Adriana and Joe have had interactions with the DP group

Action Items

  • Dean to connect with Doc regarding date for VRM June Workshop
    • Note: Last year, there was much VRM interest at the Supernova conference. Supernova this year runs 16-Jun through 18-Jun in San Francisco

Next Meeting

March 19 2008 Conference Call