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RE: [projectvrm] Being watched by smart lights in stores, vs. intelligent personal assistants & intentcasting


Chronological Thread 
  • From: John Wunderlich < >
  • To: Doc Searls < >, "T.Rob" < >, Dan Miller < >
  • Cc: ProjectVRM list < >
  • Subject: RE: [projectvrm] Being watched by smart lights in stores, vs. intelligent personal assistants & intentcasting
  • Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 02:25:20 +0000 (UTC)

Another case of the AntiVRM customer service motto that seeks to be widespread, "We're not happy until the customer is not happy.” (With credit to Scott Bourne). 

John Wunderlich,

Sent frum a mobile device,
Pleez 4give speling erurz

"...a world of near-total surveillance and endless record-keeping is likely to be one with less liberty, less experimentation, and certainly far less joy..." A. Michael Froomkin




On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 4:44 PM -0400, "T.Rob" < " target="_blank"> > wrote:

As always the industry gets it bass-ackwards. 

 

If I don't spend the coupon pushed to me then my experience is net-negative (attentional cost, bandwidth, battery, CPU consumption).  The retailer breaks even on the incremental cost when I don't buy but at the very least gains behavioral information.  If I do use the coupon maybe it's something I would have bought and can count the savings as a plus, or maybe I spend more than I should and it's a net negative.  The retailer comes out ahead in either of the "buy" cases and also has the behavioral information in all cases. 

 

Am I the only one who notes that the customer ends up net-negative in two of three of these cases?  The only way the customer begins to win more than lose is if the system really does know to a fine granularity and reliability what I would have bought anyway.  Of course that's creepy and besides if it was that good and I only purchased things at discount it would start to trend negative for the retailer. 

 

Now consider if they had designed this with the customer in mind instead of as a data porn firehose for squints.  I open my Remember The Milk shopping list and it detects the CVS LED beacons.  On syncing up, RTM knows what items are in stock and plots a route through the store for me.  I have options to select "least cost" where I'm shown the things that cost less here than at the grocery store I'm visiting later, versus "least trips" in which case RTM shows me all items on my list that are in stock.  If I want, I can select turn-by-turn voice guidance.

 

If the shopper is autistic or has anxiety disorders, they can select a "least congested route" since the store API knows if an aisle is obstructed or clear and whether the obstruction will clear up shortly.  The app can also suggest least congested days and times and update these dynamically.  In areas with high usage of this feature, retailers could have sensory-friendly periods in which the lights were a bit dimmer and the music softened up a bit.

 

They still have an ad opportunity in nominating substitutions for my items.  Users can specify terms on the substitutions like "only show me house brands if there's a money-back guarantee."  The appropriateness of substitutions is ratable by users so I can avoid retailers who nominate things of greatly unequal quality or overstate the usability of their guarantee.

 

Obviously, if I spend less time in the store there's less chance I'll impulse buy stuff so I can imagine the revulsion of the marketers at this suggestion.  On the other hand I had to tell the squints what was on my list and which items I chose to buy (or not) that were in stock and that super-sizes the data porn firehose.  If the store is good at this game it will generate some loyalty and I'll keep going back.  Eventually I might decide to just push my list to them and they can enjoy some exceptionally accurate predictive stock management.

 

Or they could continue to imagine they are the only possible beneficiaries of such a system and continue to use it for the sole purposes of behavioral data collection and carpet-bombing me with ads.

 

It also isn't lost on me that I really don't need their app.  Their lights are uniquely identifiable whether I use their app or write my own.  There's nothing that would prevent the Remember The Milk folks from implementing EVERYTHING I just outlined - and leave out the part where the store benefits from the data.  Once the retailers realize this they will have a choice to stick with their plan or embrace the consumer-friendly one.  Of course, they will demand encryption of the data from the lights before ever treating the customer with respect.  If the light manufacturers have half a brain they are already planning for this but holding back so they can charge more for the encryption enhancements once demand ramps up.  Of course they will have to keep the encryption key secret even though it has to be on my phone and their app has to render it to use it and math works the same for everyone in the universe so it'll be another stupid arms race. 

 

In the end, trying to be the only one who can use the data from the lights is as stupid as not implementing this as an open API from Day One.  If it's an open API they get all the same data except instead of getting it from an app on my phone, they get it from the API calls the phone makes.  Every person using the API with a 3rd party app represents less opportunity for something with a store brand on it to lose customer data.  Every 3rd party app represents the intersection of deeper engagement with and greater utility and that translates to greater loyalty.

 

But we all know they will continue to imagine they are the only possible beneficiaries of such a system and continue to use it for the sole purposes of behavioral data collection and carpet-bombing me with ads, and do these things with an undeserved sense of entitlement that is extremely annoying and tends to alienate people.

 

 

Kind regards,

-- T.Rob

 

 

From: Doc Searls [mailto: ]
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 14:42 PM
To: Dan Miller
Cc: ProjectVRM list
Subject: Re: [projectvrm] Being watched by smart lights in stores, vs. intelligent personal assistants & intentcasting

 

Thanks, Dan. Great response, and with much helpful detail. Now let me de-fork the thread by adding John’s post and Guy’s dialog (thus far) as well. (It’s all below.)

 

Here’s the thing: retailers aren’t going to do what we want here. They also can’t.

 

The only way any one of us can get scale is with tools that are ours: tools that make clear to the retailers of the world that those tools are good for them as well as us. That’s why I brought up intelligent assistants and intentcasting apps, and terms that we can assert that sellers will accept because those terms will clearly be good for them too.

 

Bringing those to market and getting them adopted is the challenge here. Until we do, the one-sided thinking and abuses will continue. 

 

Doc

 

 

 

On Jun 15, 2016, at 2:35 PM, John Wunderlich < "> > wrote:

 

😃 That's kind of my point

John Wunderlich,

Sent frum a mobile device,
Pleez 4give speling erurz

"...a world of near-total surveillance and endless record-keeping is likely to be one with less liberty, less experimentation, and certainly far less joy..." A. Michael Froomkin

 

_____________________________
From: Guy Higgins < "> >
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [projectvrm] Being watched by smart lights in stores, vs. intelligent personal assistants & intentcasting
To: Doc Searls < "> >, John Wunderlich < "> >, ProjectVRM list < "> >

John,

 

While I do believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, I don’t believe that any store would ever do that.  It would absolutely freak out their customers.  Ignorance is bliss.

 

Guy

 

From: John Wunderlich < "> >
Date: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 10:04 
To: Doc Searls < "> >, ProjectVRM list < "> >
Subject: Re: [projectvrm] Being watched by smart lights in stores, vs. intelligent personal assistants & intentcasting

 

Would be interesting if the receipt you gotfrom  the store included the data ceom a consent receipt:

 

While you were in out store we collected the following information about you, and used it to ... and will share it with ....

 

On Jun 15, 2016, at 11:42 AM, Dan Miller < "> > wrote:

 

Hi Doc:

Sorry that I don't have time to reply line-by-line. As usually, you are making great observations and asking the right questions. Retailers have elaborate plans and technology for identifying retail hotspots and tracking store traffic for the purpose of merchandising, etc. At Opus Research, we've done a couplildit of projects for lighting companies who seek to differentiate themselves according to their approach to supporting tracking and data communications in general. I'll never look at the inside of a store the same again.

As for the VRM, privacy and personal data protection side of the equation, CVS, Walgreens and a couple of the grocery chains have demo'd their approach to marrying their mobile apps, loyalty programs and what I'll call customer utilities. They let you store your shopping lists (tho they could build it themselves based on your purchasing history etc). Then they can identify where items are on the shelves of their stores and map the most efficient path for you to take to get in and out quickly. But that all seems sort of pale compared to what GameStop (a specialty retailer with avid "fans" who skew younger) has in mind for beacons and intelligent assistance.

Rather than keying off "intentcasting" it keys off the company's loyalty program (natch). What it defines as a "beacon" really is like a lighthouse. It is a combination of locator, digital sign and kiosk. If you have your mobile app set correctly, it greets you personally as you enter the store and can say or text "Hi ........., I see you rented Mortal Kombat XX, are you ready for XI?" or it can make other highly personalized suggestions.

In addition to the greeter beacon, there are beacons around shelves that can provide suggestions or respond to questions about specific products or software. Seems sort of cool and responsive, especially for gamers.

They were designing the system before the refresh of store lighting technology was underway so I'm not sure this is totally germane to your lighting discussion. WiFi, NFC and BLE devices (like iBeacon) prevail. But I think it dramatizes the tension between VRM or user-controlled intelligent assistance and Loyalty Programs. Can sophisticated or unsophisticated customers game the infrastructure that supports loyalty in order to gain better leverage vis a vis retailers and brands?

Intent versus Retention, that is the question.

 

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 8:01 AM, Doc Searls < " target="_blank"> > wrote:

New item from MediaPost: Smart Lights In Stores Can Pinpoint Shoppers to Within 8 Inches For Messaging, by Chuck Martin.

 

Here’s the text, with my responses:

 

Indoor beaconing is going wall to wall.

Or more accurately, it’s going from ceiling to floor, as store lighting joins the Internet of Things.

The ultimate effect is that the location of in-store shoppers can be very precisely identified and retailers or marketers can then deliver highly targeted, location-based offers, on the spot.

Do any shoppers want this? By what evidence? That they already have a CVS or Walmart app? Presumably.

 

I find myself thinking, given Apple’s moves on the privacy front, that Customer Commons should propose filtration of apps in app stores by customer terms. As in “only show me apps compliant with my terms (or preferences)."

GPS has been pretty good at identifying general location and when combined with Wi-Fi and beacons, the combo can paint a pretty good picture of proximity of a person.

GPS + Wi-Fi has proven good for providing graces such as better navigation in mapping apps, but in the second clause in that sentence I see a slippery slope from a handy feature to unwanted personalization.

 

But now other location technology, along with beacons, is being built into light bulbs.

This is yet further evidence that beacons as battery-operated, standalone devices may have seen their day, as I wrote about recently (Beacons, GPS, Wi-Fi Combo: The New Mobile Presence).

When installed at retailers, these smart lights can locate a shopper at a precision of 8 to 12 inches and then promotions and other messages can be triggered based on the location.

Let’s look at affordances here. The single affordance we want from a light is illumination. That’s it.

 

We do expect stores to have cameras or one-way mirrors that allow security people to spot shoplifting. The affordances of those are self-evident and separate from those of lighting.

 

And hey, maybe we also don’t mind “smart” lights that also have cameras for security work. Those exist too.

 

But we don’t want lights to identify us personally and send us messages. Not yet, anyway, and not until we have some kind of genuine opt-in relationship with the store. More about that below.

I just spent some time speaking with two of the executives in charge of implementing the connected lights strategy to see how this approach will be used for targeted marketing and advertising.

“This is about proximity vs. positioning,” said Gerben van der Lugt, global business development lead for indoor positioning at Philips Lighting, a company that’s been in the lighting business since 1891.

Yesterday I threw out a bunch of Philips bulbs I hadn’t yet used, because others just like them fell apart after they died, right in their sockets. When I tried to unscrew their glass-and-shit-metal corpses, the bulbs fell out in my hand while the screw bases stayed stuck inside the sockets. I had to make sure the electricity was off while I worked each bulb base out of each socket, using a needle-nosed pliers, like a dentist extracting a rotted tootht. If I were a retailer having the same experience, Philips’ brand value for me would sink toward Zika's.

Instead of sending a signal to a smartphone, like beacons, the LED lights in a store connect with a phone screen as soon as it is opened.

So let’s say you enter a CVS store equipped with these things, and you open your CVS app just so you can find which aisle has, say, the nasal spray. Is the first thing you want to see instead is a promotional message that says “Hey! Deal on batteries, right there by your right knee!”

 

(Credit where due: the CVS app is actually okay at helping manage prescriptions. Could be better, but it’s actually useful, to some degree.)

Each light fixture has a unique identification code using what Philips calls visible light communication.

A smartphone camera detects the code in the light and identifies its precise location. And that’s where marketing messages come in.

“Every fixture has a unique ID and a small variation in the intensity of light,” said van der Lugt. “The camera of the phone can see the modulation, although people can’t.”

I don’t mind not seeing the modulation, but I do mind being spied on without permission.

 

As with beacons, the shopper has to have a relevant app, such as the retailer’s where they are shopping.

That’s good. It would also help if they were made aware that systems like this are in place, and opt-in, rather than opt-out.

Carrefore installed the Philips location-based lighting system in its hypermarket in France using 800 lighting fixtures.

Wonder how well that system agrees with the spirit as well as the letter of French and EU privacy laws.

“The retail space is transforming,” said Ravi Koul, marketing director, retail and hospitality at Philips Lighting. “At Carrefore,

Correction: Carrefor.

the app ties into the promotion system so a consumer can select and browse through the promotions.

“When they’re in the store, the app opens and the shopper can say ‘show all promotions around me.’” (Koul will be detailing this in a presentation at the MediaPost Iot Marketing Forum in New York on Aug. 3).

One of the main differences in using lighting for location is in cost, since to add the technology to the lighting is incremental, rather than having to install separate beacons, for example.

“They need lights, and they can outfit them with communications or not,” said Koul. “But adding the communication can make them future proof.”

The key is that location is becoming much more refined.

“Proximity marketing is different than indoor positioning,” said Koul. “There is nothing as accurate as lighting.”

As with beacons, consumers have to opt in to receive the light-triggered messaging.

Well, that’s good.

“People kind of like that as well, since they’re in control of the connectivity,” said van der Lugt.

In addition to the lighting-triggered technology, the fixtures can include beaconing technology, so that even while in a pocket or purse, the smartphone location can be identified and tracked.

But when opened, the person holding the phone can be located to within a few inches.

Better crosshairs. Nice.

 

As a next step I can almost hear a phone talking from a purse, saying “Let’s see what else you’ve got in here… Lipstick, a bunch of credit cards, an umbrella, a pack of smokes—hey, we thought you quit! Have you tried vaping? We have those on sale!"



The Internet of Things is birthing a new state of location.

 

As if the Internet of Things is only about retail promotions.

 

Here’s another MediaPost piece by Chuck Martin, from a few days ago:

 

 

Here’s the pull-quote that matters from that one:

 

only about a third (36%) of consumers have tried a mobile payment app in a store within the last year, more intent on using credit and debit cards, based on a new retail study.

Most (61%) of them say security issues are holding them back, according to the annual Future of Retail study, which comprised a survey of 1,400 U.S. consumers’ shopping habits, preferences and views on emerging retail technology conducted by Walker Sands Communications.

The rest of the post makes clear that the appetite for store apps, at least as of today, is bargain hunters and coupon clippers.

 

Okay, so let’s VRM this thing, and say we design a retail app for individual shoppers that gives them scale: one app for dealing with many stores. What would that app be? Are we already part way there with intelligent assistants and intentcasting? And can we pivot Chuck Martin’s and MediaPost’s interest in spyware-based IoT into an interest in shopping experiences led by shoppers themselves?

 

I’d like us to try.

 

Doc

 

 

 



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