Re: [projectvrm] If ads are inevitable (Mozilla)

[Don Marti < >]

Publisher anti-adblocking is like challenging monkeys
to a poo-flinging fight. 

Always good to have more people on the list.

Also Ted might be interested in some blogs
that cover the targeted advertising problem
(including some written by people on the list):
http://blog.aloodo.org/misc/blogroll/

begin Deborah Schultz quotation of Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 12:49:13PM -0700:
> 
> Good point.
> 
> I know the author of the piece  - might be interesting to invite Ted to our
> band of VRM!
> 
> 
> Deborah Schultz
> ----------------------------------
> 
 
> Website <http://www.deborahschultz.com/> | Linkedin
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/debschultz/>: | Twitter
> <http://twitter.com/debs>
> 
> Co-founder YxYY Festival <http://yesandyesyes.com/>- a unique gathering of
> geeks and creatives
> Founder, T.E.A.M Israel <http://team-israel.org/> - Advancing Equine
> Athletics in Israel
> Co-founder Tummelvision <http://tummelvision.tv/> - podcast exploring
> culture of the networked economy
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Don Marti 
> <
 >
>  wrote:
> 
> > Publisher sites are slow-moving, software-wise.
> > Most integrations are done in the browser -- no third
> > party can rely on average publishers being able to
> > do much beyond "paste this pixel/script/iframe into
> > the page and forget it"
> >
> > Ad blockers can move faster.
> >
> >   https://adblockplus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40350
> >
> > The risk is that publishers adopting anti-adblock are
> > challenging ad blockers to a web coding race.  More
> > likely to breed faster ad blockers.
> >
> > Better question: what can legit publishers do _better_
> > than the other players? What doesn't depend on
> > software development speed?
> >
> > Don
> >
> > begin Deborah Schultz quotation of Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 12:03:50PM -0700:
> > >
> > > And in related ad blocking opinion pieces:
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/257938/dont-let-viewers-renege-on-the-social-contract.html
> > >
> > > Thoughts?
> > >
> > >
> > > Deborah Schultz
> > > ----------------------------------
> > > 
 
> > > Website <http://www.deborahschultz.com/> | Linkedin
> > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/debschultz/>: | Twitter
> > > <http://twitter.com/debs>
> > >
> > > Co-founder YxYY Festival <http://yesandyesyes.com/>- a unique gathering
> > of
> > > geeks and creatives
> > > Founder, T.E.A.M Israel <http://team-israel.org/> - Advancing Equine
> > > Athletics in Israel
> > > Co-founder Tummelvision <http://tummelvision.tv/> - podcast exploring
> > > culture of the networked economy
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 9:23 AM, Doc Searls <
> > 
 >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I believe the entirety of advertising for Mozilla in Firefox is Tiles 
> > > > <
> > > > https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/about-tiles-new-tab>, which
> > appears
> > > > only in new tab you set up to make them appear. The ads there are not
> > > > tracking-based.
> > > >
> > > > So, if you choose not to see tiles in new tabs, you have an ad-free
> > > > version of Firefox.
> > > >
> > > > Mozilla’s master is the user, and always has been. Its revenue comes
> > from
> > > > many sources. Advertising is gravy on those. And, as Sean said, the
> > goal is
> > > > to disrupt advertising in the icky forms we’ve been harping on here 
> > > > for
> > > > years.
> > > >
> > > > That said, I’m sure the Mozilla folks are game to hear ideas.
> > > >
> > > > Doc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Sep 15, 2015, at 4:36 PM, Jim Bursch 
> > > > > <
 >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I would prefer that my browser act solely in my interest. Which will
> > > > Mozilla choose, the thing that generates revenue for them, or the 
> > > > thing
> > > > that I want?
> > > > >
> > > > > By doing advertising, and choosing advertising revenue, my Mozilla
> > > > browser now has two masters -- me and whomever at Mozilla is
> > interested in
> > > > maximizing ad revenue. This is bad news.
> > > > >
> > > > > Solution: an ad-free version for which I am the sole customer, which
> > may
> > > > mean that I need to pony up a few bucks to align Mozilla's interests
> > with
> > > > mine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim Bursch
> > > > > 310-869-5340
> > > > >
> > > > > 
 
> > > > > https://fundchan.com
> > > > >
> > > > > @jimbursch
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/15/2015 2:35 AM, Sean Bohan wrote:
> > > > >> Thanks Judy.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> To continue the line of thinking from your second email, our thesis
> > is
> > > > that the user's History is a greater source of the User's wants, needs
> > and
> > > > interests than shadows of them derived from tracking. It is our
> > intention
> > > > to both create sustainable revenue for the organization and disrupt
> > online
> > > > advertising by showing that it can be done at scale without the
> > friction,
> > > > loss and disrespecting the user.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Now that Tiles is launching, our goal is to bring Intentcasting/VRM
> > > > into the browser, letting Users signal the web with what they want or
> > don't
> > > > want. Personal Terms of Service (see Customer Commons) and making an
> > > > effective alternative to AdChoices in the browser are both on the
> > drawing
> > > > board.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Evolving from that, letting the user's browser tell the web what
> > they
> > > > want (#LookingForACar) or don't want
> > > > (#justBookedVacationStopShowingMeVacationAds) will follow.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> And then in parallel, connecting the dots between Intentcasting and
> > > > Identity and Personal Clouds...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> We have a lot on our plate.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> :)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> - Sean
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 12:20 AM, Identity Coach <
> > > > 
 >
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > >> To put a finer point on this, Mozilla can track (user-side?) the
> > sites
> > > > I visit more than, say, 3 times. Each of those sites probably have ads
> > on
> > > > them, so there's a higher than average possibility that I'll be
> > interested
> > > > in some of those ads, especially if an ad related company turns up on
> > more
> > > > than one site. That might be a tile in my newsertainment feed.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> While I think Goog could also do this well (and likely will, 
> > > > >> because
> > > > Google Surveillance is everywhere), everything they touch has cooties
> > and
> > > > so less trusted value. Tracking (and apparently getting it wrong as
> > often
> > > > as not) is in their DNA. I would turn tiles off in Chrome, no 
> > > > question.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> So Mozillians, what do you say? Can this be done?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>   j.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On 9/14/15 3:10 PM, Identity Coach wrote:
> > > > >>> Ran across one of many articles about Mozilla implementing ads in
> > the
> > > > Firefox tiles:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Mozilla Gets Its First Partners for Ads in Firefox
> > > > >>>
> > > >
> > http://news.softpedia.com/news/mozilla-gets-its-first-partners-for-ads-in-firefox-491609.shtml
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> and found myself wondering if they could and why they wouldn't
> > give us
> > > > a choice of which "advertising feeds" we might "subscribe" to. Yeah I
> > can
> > > > turn off the tiles (and many will), but if we treat ads more like a
> > > > newsertainment feed, then we can find the good agencies, direct
> > > > advertisers, et al. and give voice to choice. I might actually like
> > certain
> > > > ads if they were relevant to my particular and identifiable musements
> > and
> > > > interests.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> A friend of mine loves TV ads and noted that "if a burger ad is
> > good
> > > > enough to make me want to get up and eat one, it has succeeded."
> > Similarly,
> > > > if there's an ad that a) I'd watch b) without cringing, it worked. If
> > > > everyone hates ads because they all suck and there's no choice,
> > Mozilla's
> > > > future is in jeopardy and we all lose.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>   j.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> Sean W. Bohan
> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> Mobile: 646-234-5693
> > > > >> Email: 
> > > > >> 
 
> > > > >> Skype: seanbohan
> > > > >> Blog: www.seanbohan.com
> > > > >> Twitter: @seanbohan
> > > > >> AngelList: http://angel.co/sean-bohan
> > > > >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/seanbohan
> > > > >> No virus found in this message.
> > > > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > > >> Version: 2015.0.6086 / Virus Database: 4419/10639 - Release Date:
> > > > 09/14/15
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > --
> > Don Marti 
> > <
 >
> > http://zgp.org/~dmarti/
> > Are you safe from 3rd-party web tracking?  http://www.aloodo.org/test/
> >

-- 
Don Marti 
<
 >
                   
http://zgp.org/~dmarti/
Are you safe from 3rd-party web tracking?  http://www.aloodo.org/test/