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Re: [projectvrm] Greg Satell on Let¹s Face It, We Don¹t Really Care About Privacy


Chronological Thread 
  • From: Dave Gray < >
  • To: Graham Reginald Hill < >
  • Cc: ProjectVRM list < >
  • Subject: Re: [projectvrm] Greg Satell on Let¹s Face It, We Don¹t Really Care About Privacy
  • Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 08:30:36 -0600
Fair and true enough. Conversely there are people who argue that humans don't have a right to water, which seems absurd to me.

On Tuesday, December 16, 2014, Graham Reginald Hill < "> > wrote:
Hi Dave
 
I have long argued along the same moral philosophical lines. But that rather begs the question as to whether morals are absolute (you have the right to a fair trial) or relative (except in the following circumstances). Therein lies the difficulty in setting out anything as complicated as a universal declaration of human rights. And there is always pressure to add more and more to the list of human rights. For example, I understand that there is pressure from the EU to promote access to the Internet as a fundamantal human right (http://assembly.coe.int/ASP/Doc/XrefViewPDF.asp?FileID=20535&Language=EN)! What next, access to television (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/06/is-television-a-human-right/277100/)?
 
As an aside. The UN has a Committee on Human Rights. So why doesn't it have one on Human Responsibilities? Do not rights automatically come with responsibilities too? Aristotle certainly thought so.
 
Best regards from Bristol, Graham
 
 
 
A human right is a moral principle.
 
The degree to which a moral principles is lived and enacted in the world (or not) is not an argument against it.
 
Dave

On Monday, December 15, 2014, Guy Higgins < " target="_blank"> > wrote:
Without getting too philosophical, human rights exist in fact, as opposed to on paper, only when some agency with the power to do so, enforces them.  To quote R.A. Heinlein, “What right to life does a man sacrificing himself for his family have?” Who will enforce his right?
 
I think that the various declarations and legislation are good, and we should support them, but while governments may have the obligation to enforce those rights, they have proven remarkably ineffective in doing so — in fact, governments have been one of the primary offenders whether under the U.S. Patriot Act (there should be a law about truth in naming legislation) or under some of the more dictatorial regimes of the Twentieth Century.  The difference between the NKVD and the NSA is the use of technology and the complete abandon with which the NKVD was prepared to abuse those “human rights.”
 
Governments are terribly ineffective at achieving the goals of the legislation they pass.  So, it does remain with us, the citizens and voters, to demand that the government do that of which it is capable and that we do as much as we are capable of.  I don’t expect magic answers from either approach, but they are necessary.
 
Guy
 
From: "T.Rob" < >
Date: Monday, December 15, 2014 at 9:40
To: 'Graham Hill' < >, Doc Searls < >
Cc: 'ProjectVRM list' < >
Subject: RE: [projectvrm] Greg Satell on Let’s Face It, We Don’t Really Care About Privacy
 

> Everything has its price. Privacy is no different. It is not as though it is a human right!

 

Really?  Is this a principle of your consulting practice because if so you might be advising your clients to commit crimes against humanity. 

 

I refer you to Article 12 of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights (http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml#a12 ) which states:

 

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

 

Of course, some clients might scoff at the authority of the UN.  If they happen to be in the UK then perhaps they recognize Article 8 of the Human Rights Act of 1988 ( http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1/part/I/chapter/7 ) which states:

 

Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.

 

No multi-million pound ad campaign will erase the human right to privacy.  This isn't one of those subjective things like "Coke is better than Pepsi" that you can just keep repeating until it becomes true for your target demographic.  You'll actually need to convince a bunch of people to repeal some laws first.

 

> although many people are concerned about their lack of digital privacy they typically expect someone else, i.e. government, to do something about it.

 

Ya think?  Perhaps that's because the government has pledged to do exactly that when they passed the law.  See above for references.  Some would say the government are actually *obliged* to uphold the aforementioned laws as if doing so were, you know, mandatory and stuff.

 

Of course, I may be dead wrong about all this.  It has happened before.  (I know, right?)  In that case can you tell us who, besides you, is above these laws and why?  Also, it would be handy to have a spreadsheet because us citizens serfs tend to assume nobody is above the laws and, at least in my case, find it difficult to identify those who are.  Take you for instance.  There is no crown in your profile photo or other identifying characteristic to indicate your elevated extrajudicial status.  It is only when you put words to (virtual) paper that anyone can tell that the laws don't apply to you.

 

Barring that possibility, we now return you to your regularly scheduled reality where, yes, there is an actual universal human right of privacy.

 

Kind regards,

-- T.Rob

 

T.Robert Wyatt, Managing partner

IoPT Consulting, LLC

+1 704-443-TROB (8762) Voice/Text

+44 (0) 8714 089 546  Voice

https://ioptconsulting.com

https://twitter.com/tdotrob

 

From: Graham Hill [mailto: ]
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 10:39 AM
To: Doc Searls
Cc: ProjectVRM list
Subject: [projectvrm] Greg Satell on Let’s Face It, We Don’t Really Care About Privacy ??????????????

 

Hi Doc

 

Harvard Business Review blogger Greg Satell has just published an interesting post on 'Let’s Face It, We Don’t Really Care About Privacy' on his Digital Tonto blog (http://www.digitaltonto.com/2014/lets-face-it-we-dont-really-care-about-privacy/?utm_source=Digital%20Tonto%20Newsletter&utm_campaign=848a327f51-The_Social_Tax12_13_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_3e316dce02-848a327f51-389199989&ct=t%28The_Social_Tax12_13_2014%29). Greg references a new Pew Internet Report on 'Public Perceptions of Privacy and Security in the Post-Snowdeen Era' (http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/11/12/public-privacy-perceptions/) that highlights that although many people are concerned about their lack of digital privacy they typically expect someone else, i.e. government, to do something about it. And as an earlier Boston Consulting Group report on 'Data Privacy by the Numbers' (http://www.slideshare.net/TheBostonConsultingGroup/data-privacy-by-the-numbers) shows, these same people are often willing to give away increasingly intimate information about themselves in exchange for something of value. 

 

As the old saying hoses… Everything has its price. Privacy is no different. It is not as though it is a human right!

 

Thoughts?

 

Best regards from Bristol, Graham

 

--

Dr. Graham Hill

UK +44 7564 122 633

DE +49 170 487 6192

 

Partner

Optima Partners

 

Senior Associate

Nyras Capital

 



--
Dave Gray
 
phone +1.415.683.6802 | fax +1-801-846-1408 | twitter @davegray

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--
Dave Gray

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