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Re: Re: [projectvrm] "True Personalization Means Putting Big Data In Consumers’ Hands suggests sharing it"


Chronological Thread 
  • From: John Havens < >
  • To: Graham Reginald Hill < >
  • Cc: ProjectVRM list < >
  • Subject: Re: Re: [projectvrm] "True Personalization Means Putting Big Data In Consumers’ Hands suggests sharing it"
  • Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 18:21:18 -0400
Hi Graham,

Thanks for your thoughts and I'm glad to hear CMO's are eager in your experience.  I have no interest in being antagonistic to brands, advertisers or anyone else who is focused on building transparency and value, re: personal data.  I would, however, be keen to know if you feel this open attitude is more prevalent in areas outside of the U.S. versus within the U.S. 

In terms of CMOs recognizing the need to co-create value by giving more control, how do you mean?  Specifically, I'm not sure how a brand can best collaborate with customers to create value if those customers feel concerns about the privacy of their data.  Please note I'm not interested in demonizing brands, or minimizing their efficacy at using Social Media or other tools to communicate openly with their audiences.  But part of "freeing themselves from the tragedy of the marketing commons" (great quote) is recognizing and restructuring the channels that filter customer information today.  It's great if a CMO wants to be more open - but how are they actively working to alter the supply chain of personal data in a way customers and individuals can understand?  While those channels are muddied via third-party brokers or organizations not being clear about terms and conditions statements, etc, basic trust between any well-intentioned CMO and customers is at risk.





On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Graham Reginald Hill < " target="_blank"> > wrote:
Hi Doc
 
It is interesting to note that the Personalisation article is written by the CEO of the same company, Autograph, that is implementing iBeacons with all their inherent intrusiveness and lack of transparency in every shop along London's one mile long Regent St (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/10875969/Regent-Street-to-deploy-beacon-technology-in-shops.html). The Autograph tool (http://autograph.me) is fascinating; it claims to "in under one minute without knowing your name, email address or any personally identifiable information, autograph can figure out 5500 dimension - age, income, likes and dislikes - at over 90% accuracy, allowing businesses to serve what matters to you - offers, programs, music... almost anything". Suggesting that this puts big data in consumers hands is an impressive feat of etymological prestidigitation! What is it they say about Greeks bearing gifts?
 
Hi John W
 
How big is the quantified self movemen? I wear a Nike Fuel Band as part of a gamification of health outcomes experiment for my (doctor) wife. Under no circumstances would I consider myself part of the quantified self movement. I am interested in ensuring that I get my fuel points for each day and I will go out for a walk in the evening if I haven't got them. But I have absolutely no interest in providing my data to others, in downloading additional apps, let alone downloading my data for myself to use. I suspect that the vast majority of wearers of similar technologies are in the same boat as I am. Yet people like myself may be included in the quantified self statistics, at least those provided by the quantified self movement.
 
Hi John H
 
I am not sure that marketers are as afraid of ceding more control to consumers as you suggest. I am fortunate that my consulting and private equity work involves strategic discussions with CMOs from many different data-rich companies. I have been talking about the Personal Information Economy to CMOs for over a year now. Many of them are looking to built better involvement, engagement and trust with their customers and are surprisingly open to providing them with tools to help them co-create more value through better use of their data. Some of the value may come from customers curating their own data (e.g. providing permissions and preferences), but it is much more likely that the lion's share of value will come from providing customers with e.g. decision support and platforms, to help them make their lives easier, cheaper and better than is the case today. Many CMOS are positively eager to hear how this would work and what are the next steps they ought to take to develop a proof of concept.
 
It is all too easy to see the need for a revolution in marketing as though customers are going to storm today's digital marketing Bastille and free themselves from the tragedy of the marketing commons. That is an easy view for people not heavily involved in strategic marketing decisions to take. But it is simply unrealistic. The view from inside is rather different. Many CMOS have long recognised the need to co-create more value by giving customers more control over its co-creation, whether through data or other means. It is all about value, not about privacy, and certainly not about data.
 
Best regards from Cologne, Graham 
 
 
Gesendet: Montag, 14. Juli 2014 um 19:13 Uhr
Von: "John Havens" < " target="_blank"> >
An: "John Wunderlich" < " target="_blank"> >
Cc: "Doc Searls" < " target="_blank"> >, "ProjectVRM list" < " target="_blank"> >
Betreff: Re: [projectvrm] "True Personalization Means Putting Big Data In Consumers’ Hands suggests sharing it"
A lot of marketers don't want to cede that kind of control to individuals, definitely. The sad irony, however, is that most rely on personalization algorithms that are often built on faulty or erroneous data leading to a new trend of "uncanny valley" experiences for consumers. Meaning, people are getting freaked out when targeted ads almost know them too well versus standard spam.
 
Smart marketers will take their experience at communicating ideas about products and services and create "agent" or other trusted models along those lines where they can save individuals time by helping them sort/parse deals, etc, in VRM or similar P2P model.  But even then, those roles (like with social media) will go in-house fairly quickly versus outside agencies as they provide essential trust points for building trust.
 
 
 

On Jul 14, 2014, at 12:40 PM, John Wunderlich < " target="_blank"> > wrote:
 
I have to wonder if putting big data and easy analytics in the users' hands is exactly what current marketing 'pros' DON'T WANT.
 
Take for example the 'quantized self'. The self uses their smartphone and a number of apps to collect information about themselves (heart rate, mileage, calories, blood sugar, etc). If self can put that in a personal cloud, under self's control, and then use that cloud to anonymously search for products and services to buy/use base on reviews and other characteristics - where is the role for marketing - or at least marketing as we know it. In other words, no insurance company has access to this data - anonymized or otherwise - without self's authorization.
 
Does this scenario (VRMish as it is) put self in a place for shopping for products based on utility and effectiveness? Mass personalization initiated by the self, as it were.

 
 
 
John Wunderlich
Privacist @PrivacyCDN
 
On 11 July 2014 04:05, Doc Searls < " target="_blank"> > wrote:
I'm in Istanbul with a terrible connection, and can only do email (and not well at that). Visiting the Web is a spinning-wheel exercise. Techies will appreciate the problem:
 
PING google.com (173.194.44.6): 56 data bytes
Request timeout for icmp_seq 0
Request timeout for icmp_seq 1
Request timeout for icmp_seq 2
64 bytes from 173.194.44.6: icmp_seq=0 ttl=54 time=3213.581 ms
64 bytes from 173.194.44.6: icmp_seq=1 ttl=54 time=3022.304 ms
64 bytes from 173.194.44.6: icmp_seq=2 ttl=54 time=2949.565 ms
64 bytes from 173.194.44.6: icmp_seq=3 ttl=54 time=3005.342 ms
64 bytes from 173.194.44.6: icmp_seq=4 ttl=54 time=3035.770 ms
64 bytes from 173.194.44.6: icmp_seq=5 ttl=54 time=3005.190 ms
64 bytes from 173.194.44.6: icmp_seq=6 ttl=54 time=3006.076 ms
64 bytes from 173.194.44.6: icmp_seq=7 ttl=54 time=3156.819 ms
64 bytes from 173.194.44.6: icmp_seq=8 ttl=54 time=3284.739 ms
64 bytes from 173.194.44.6: icmp_seq=9 ttl=54 time=3374.818 ms
64 bytes from 173.194.44.6: icmp_seq=10 ttl=54 time=3528.196 ms
64 bytes from 173.194.44.6: icmp_seq=11 ttl=54 time=3761.773 ms
64 bytes from 173.194.44.6: icmp_seq=12 ttl=54 time=3532.381 ms
^C
--- google.com ping statistics ---
17 packets transmitted, 13 packets received, 23.5% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 2949.565/3221.273/3761.773/248.441 ms
 
Yet this item appeared in the midst, and the title (in the subject above) makes me want to share it with the list.
 
Doc
 
 



--
"More than at any time in human history, we have access to mountains of data about ourselves.  Hacking H(app)iness is the first book to show us how to leverage this information as a path to happiness, rather than a source of misery."

-Adam Grant, Bestselling author of, Give and Take



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