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Re: [projectvrm] Who owns data generated by 'connected cars' sensor slurpers?Š Some Common Sense


Chronological Thread 
  • From: Liz Coker < >
  • To: ProjectVRM list < >
  • Subject: Re: [projectvrm] Who owns data generated by 'connected cars' sensor slurpers?Š Some Common Sense
  • Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 18:24:55 +0000
  • Accept-language: en-US
+1

Here! Here!  Graham.  

The problem with most “technology” is that it tries to force the user into a one-size fits all methodology (accept these Ts & C’s or don’t use this service/app).  If VRM’s goal is treat the customer like a customer – to allow them to interact with their preferred merchants (or healthcare providers or auto brands) on terms that are agreeable to both - then a certain amount of choice and flexibility (on both party’s parts) are required. 

While I’d rather see companies err on the side of privacy and respect, forcing “total control” on someone who doesn’t want it can have just as deleterious an effect as taking control away from someone who does want it.  A really good sales person (or doctor) adjusts their approach based upon what he or she learns about the customer/patient.  In the future, really good VRMy technology should do the same.  (I know this is easier said than done, but I believe strongly, that this should be the goal we all strive towards).


Liz

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3PMobile
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From: Graham Hill < "> >
Date: Monday, February 17, 2014 at 11:11 AM
To: Adrian Gropper < "> >
Cc: ProjectVRM list < "> >
Subject: Re: [projectvrm] Who owns data generated by 'connected cars' sensor slurpers?… Some Common Sense

Hi Adrian

Not all chronically-ill patients, (and I assume not all car drivers), want as much control over their data as you seem to do. For example, McColl Kennedy et al in a recent paper on 'Health Care Customer Value Cocreation Practice Styles' (http://www.sdlogic.net/uploads/2/7/3/5/2735531/mccoll-kennedy_et_all__jsr_2012.pdf) identified five different styles of co-creation in cancer patients, ranging from 'passive compliers' who complied with the instructions they were given to the 'team managers' who wanted to organise everything abut their treatment, handling and recovery.. Each patient had a dominant style which they preferred to work within. If they had all been forced to operate as the most active - team managers - the health outcomes for the other four types of patient would have been worse than if allowed to operate under their own preferred style. Interestingly, almost half of the patients were identified as preferring the passive compliant style. 

I suggest it is MORALLY WRONG to insist that all drivers be forced to adopt the policies demanded by the most demanding of car-driving data users. Any regulations, codes of behaviour or best practices developed should suit the needs of all drivers, from the most data-demanding to those who couldn't give a tinker's cuss! It would be a criminal shame if the medical needs of an unconscious driver lying in a car wreck were to be overruled by an over-zealously constructed data usage agreement that required active consent from the dying driver.

Common sense would dictate that we put the VRM ideology to one side and work on a pragmatic set of best practices that are in the interests of ALL DRIVERS, not just of a few obsessive zealots. Thankfully, automobile telematics should be a whole lot simpler than oncology treatment. That doesn't mean that the same approach couldn't be taken to identify their preferred styles.

Best regards from Cologne, Graham

On 17 Feb 2014, at 17:43, Adrian Gropper < "> > wrote:

Consider the case of connected people. Hugo Campos, for example has an implantable cardiac defibrillator (ICD) that sends his data to Medtronic before it goes to the hospital where it might go to a doctor, and finally, only after years of struggle, Hugo got to see a degraded version of his own data as an off-line file. (Activities that trigger the ICD and the resulting "tuning" are obviously a prime concern for the patient.) Hugo has been very public about this issue. Another ICD patient I advise lost track of her data when she lost her health insurance. The alarms from her device were not being monitored by anyone.

From my perspective, "privacy by design" is too vague. The design framework needs to be based on Fair Information Practice. Oversimplified, FIP requires consent, data minimization and transparency. All three criteria, require the patient to have convenient access to the ICD data _before_  it's sent to the vendor or the hospital. Without such access consent is being coerced, data minimization cannot be audited and transparency is more or less absent.

This brings us to the SIM card or the equivalent private key associated with the device. That key needs to be entirely in the control of the patient. In some cases the key may be associated with a certificate. It could be used for ID and encryption (although there's a case to insist the encryption also allow for perfect forward secrecy). In many cases, a trusted certificate is not required.  For my ICD patients, a self-signed certificate and in-person authentication with my physician should be sufficient.

Adrian




On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 11:58 AM, T.Rob < " target="_blank"> > wrote:

That would be MUCH appreciated, Graham!  I'm curious to hear their take.  Some folks from a different German auto maker scheduled 30  minutes with me 2 years back at IMPACT.  The security discussion took about 20 minutes and I spent the remaining time talking about all the data issues.  We ended up running way over and having lunch together because the data discussion was way more interesting than the back-end security discussion we'd planned.  (Because it was in my role as an IBM product manager I can't provide the name.)

 

Kind regards,

-- T.Rob

 

T.Robert Wyatt, Managing partner

IoPT Consulting, LLC

+1 704-443-TROB

https://ioptconsulting.com

https://twitter.com/tdotrob

 

From: Graham Hill [mailto: " target="_blank"> ]
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 9:56 AM
To: T.Rob
Cc: " target="_blank">
Subject: Re: [projectvrm] Who owns data generated by 'connected cars' sensor slurpers?

 

Hi T.Rob

 

I have lunch with the head of Toyota Deutschland's legal team in a couple of weeks time. I have already let him know that this is a topic we should cover over the fish and chardonnay. I will let you know what his legal opinion is.

 

Best regards from Cologne, Graham

 



An analysis under German law as to who can and should own data from a connected car, implications of sharing with 3rdparties, and a call for Privacy by Design.

 

 

Kind regards,

-- T.Rob

 

T.Robert Wyatt, Managing partner

IoPT Consulting, LLC

+1 704-443-TROB

 

 

 




--
Adrian Gropper MD



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