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Re: [personal-clouds] [projectvrm] [ProjectVRM][Personal-clouds] Terms and Conditions May apply


Chronological Thread 
  • From: Peter Cranstone < >
  • To: Kevin Cox < >, Doc Searls < >
  • Cc: Owen Thomas < >, Matt Hogan < >, ProjectVRM list < >, " " < >
  • Subject: Re: [personal-clouds] [projectvrm] [ProjectVRM][Personal-clouds] Terms and Conditions May apply
  • Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 15:51:00 +0000
  • Accept-language: en-US
They tried that with P3P and that failed.

Do wait for things like comparisons – it introduces too much friction. Build value by keeping the customer happy with an increased level of privacy. Happy customers will stay even if it costs a little more.

From: Kevin Cox < "> >
Date: Thursday, July 18, 2013 8:13 AM
To: Doc Searls < "> >
Cc: Owen Thomas < "> >, Matt Hogan < "> >, "Peter J. Cranstone" < "> >, ProjectVRM list < "> >, " "> " < "> >
Subject: Re: [personal-clouds] [projectvrm] [ProjectVRM][Personal-clouds] Terms and Conditions May apply

Are there examples of terms and conditions that are "equal" and understandable.  

Correct me if I am wrong but as I understand it people are working on the following problem.

A user comes to a website with a set of terms and conditions.
The website has a set of terms and conditions.

The terms and conditions for both parties are written in such a way that they can be checked by machine to see that they are compatible.

Are there examples of how we would be able to get a machine to check the two sets of terms and conditions - and point out problems.

We urgently need such examples for our Customer Aware Websites.

Kevin



On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 11:01 PM, Doc Searls < " target="_blank"> > wrote:
We are working on alternatives — where we as individuals also get to assert terms, and not just the service providers of the world. Two chapters of The Intention Economy (4 "Lopsided law" and 20 "The law in our own hands") are devoted to the subject and a number of people here (myself included) are on the case. Customer Commons has also engaged the Cyberlaw Clinic at the Berkman Center to help with it, and I'm very optimistic about where it's going.

Doc


What's the alternative?

Do I become a paranoid isolate? One perhaps more than I am already? Do I boycott any use of the mechanisms which my species has designed for the purpose of projecting my individual intent beyond the geographical confines of my immediate environment?

I think that maybe the question being put has these alternatives as its obvious answer.

I'm not too bothered by the use of all the Googles, Twitters and Facebooks, because the alternatives are and will remain that I don't use these things. That's not really an alternative if I think I have something to contribute on a planet of more than 7 billion individuals.

If we're going to talk about everyone having an "identity" and making greater use of services provided by devices that one doesn't directly possess, then I can't see that any question can be put because the answer is obvious. Google, Twitter, Facebook, etc are here because we live in such an environment that makes us think they're useful. They're useful to me only while they remain in a suitable corner of my life, and only for as long as I think they have use to my life.

I put that there are deeper problems for which the appearance of all this stuff is a symptom. These problems are probably not the subject matter of this group so these are probably my concluding remarks.


On 18 July 2013 14:34, Matt Hogan < " target="_blank"> > wrote:
It's about terms and tracking.

Matt Hogan
@matthewphogan
Is the movie about "free?" 

From what I gather it's about terms.

Doc


FREE is the crack cocaine that everyone is addicted to. 

The horses have already left the barn and are counties away. While it's nice to chat about the problem it's too late to fix by patching what we have. You need a paradigm shift in the way you control the collection, flow and use of your data. 

Unfortunately we're all admiring the problem – somebody needs to put a real stake in the ground. And guess what – it will come with a price tag, and consumers will vote with their checkbook. Careful what you wish for.


There is a phenomenal movie out about Terms and Conditions and personal data that me and the other PDNYC co-organizers sent to the group. Here is a link to the trailer and here are the tentative schedules for select city openings. 

Cullen Hoback did a great job with this and it's incredibly pertinent to the information discussed on both of these email lists. I think it is something that could potentially bring more press to a space that needs it. 


Schedule:
    New York - Quad Cinema - July 12*-18 (Showtimes: 1, 2:40, 4:30, 6:15, 8*, 10)
    Los Angeles - Laemmle Noho 7 - July 19*-25
    Chicago - Gene Siskel Film Center  - July 20 & 23*
    Seattle - SIFF Cinema  - July 25
    Denver - SIE Film Center  - July 26-Aug 1
    Phoenix - Harkins Valley Art  - July 26-Aug 1
    Portland - Cinema 21 - TBA
    San Francisco – The Roxie - Aug 2-8
    San Jose – The Camera 3 Cinemas – Aug 2-8
    San Diego – Digital Gym – Aug 16-22

Scheduling updates can be found here: http://tacma.net/

If it's coming to your city, I would definitely urge a viewing. 

--
CEO/Founder
DataCoup, Inc.


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Employment-from-home. Make mine part-time. Yes you can.
Software developers certainly can be salaried and superannuated part-time from home. Make it so for this one.
Philosophy. Atheist gap-filler.
Clique Space(TM): Synthetic ego.
www.owenpaulthomas.blogspot.com
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