Re: [personal-clouds] [projectvrm] Cookie Doom Already Appearing in Data | ComScore Shames Ad Clutterers | Global Adspend in Doldrums as Dog Bites Man - MarketingVOX

[Mary Hodder < >]

Johannes.. 

My email was *only* meant for Dennis.. He's not even on the Project VRM 
list.. and I didn't hit "reply all"
but even if I had hit reply-all.. project VRM wasn't on that email from 
Dennis.  I cannot figure out *how my machined added a list not on the email 
reply*.

Yet somehow my mac has been trained that for reply email citing the list, it 
should add the full list name onto the CC? I have no idea how that happened.  
But having a cross posting likely contributed.

However, what's done is done.  

Sorry to everyone for my accidentally sending a personal email.

Regarding the two lists, and cross-postings.. can we please only post to one 
list?   Every time I have to spend 5-8 minutes on a cross post .. I curse 
everyone involved.. now I'll curse you too.. thanks for stepping up.

I would appreciate it if we could be more careful with attention and time and 
not just cross post everywhere.

Kaliya,
Sorry I called you out on this publicly; it was not intentional.

I believed you wanted a list, because during the time I spent in PDEC, you 
regularly wanted to have your own list / community and would say so in 
reference to this list. It's a belief I have because of what I observed.  But 
what you said to me may not be true.

mary



On Apr 12, 2013, at 12:46 PM, Johannes Ernst wrote:

> Just for the record, the idea for the personal clouds list and the 
> personal-clouds.org site was mine. I can provide a history if you would 
> like me to but I'd rather get back to the substantive discussions instead 
> of speculating whose motives are which and which aren't.
> 
> E.g. recent discussions on the personal clouds list on backup protocols, 
> how to automate one's front door and house energy savings do not belong on 
> a VRM list, just like a discussion on how retailers can take advantage of 
> empowered customers does not belong on the personal clouds list. Most of 
> the subscribers on either list would unsubscribe or tune out, and that 
> would serve nobody and no cause. It's simply different communities with 
> different aims. Yes, there's overlap, but that's how it is with communities 
> and with so many other things. And I think we are all used to being 
> subscribed to dozens of mailing lists anyway.
> 
> 
> On Apr 11, 2013, at 14:15, Mary Hodder 
> <
 >
>  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Dennis,
>> 
>> I think what is really going on is that the VRM list is very active and 
>> well moderated. Kaliya wants her own list.. to make PDEC more relevant.
>> But all the PDEC people are on VRM and regular posts.
>> 
>> Those people know the knowledge base is at VRM.. so they all cross post.
>> 
>> It's just annoying to have all that time taken.. just because someone got 
>> to the party late and didn't cultivate community. So everyone should just 
>> waste
>> time.. I find it annoying.
>> 
>> Let's send to one list or another.. and stop trying to make everything be 
>> on two lists.. or most everything.  What I'm seeing are some Personal 
>> Cloud email then forwarded to the VRM list.. people posters don't want to 
>> miss out on the audience.
>> 
>> mary
>> 
>> On Apr 11, 2013, at 4:10 PM, Mary Hodder wrote:
>> 
>>> Dennis,
>>> 
>>> The project VRM list:  Project VRM 
>>> <
 >
>>> 
>>> -  has about 700+ people on it.. and it's been around for 7 years, 
>>> working on development of VRM, personal data, cloud, personal data store, 
>>> privacy and personal data ecosystem topics
>>> 
>>> The personal-clouds list: 
>>> 
>>> - has about 70 people, many of whom are on the VRM list.. and has been 
>>> around for 3 months.. taking about personal data and clouds, privacy, 
>>> personal data ecosystem, etc.
>>> 
>>> Most of the heavy posters are on both lists.. which is why are seeing so 
>>> much overlap.
>>> 
>>> If someone posts to both lists, and I want to reply, I get a total of 6 
>>> email (including the two bounces because I manage my gmail lists 
>>> differently than other lists) and have to send 2 times.. all of which 
>>> takes up about 5-8 minutes of time, depending on what the situation is.
>>> 
>>> It's annoying.. it would be nice if we could get on one list and stop 
>>> this.. because for us on both, it's happening a lot.
>>> 
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Apr 11, 2013, at 2:02 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>>> 
>>>> As a subscriber to only one of the lists, it is difficult to see the 
>>>> problem that Mary has.
>>>> 
>>>> I haven't seen that much cross-posting on [personal-clouds].  I usually 
>>>> do not continue cross-postings in replies I make. Since I don't know 
>>>> what another list's conversation is, I don't cross-post back because I 
>>>> have no context and I don't want to spam the other conversation.  That 
>>>> means I contribute to the problem of cross-postings ending up in forked, 
>>>> uncoordinated conversations.
>>>> 
>>>> It seems to me that those who cross-post are the only ones who can 
>>>> assess whether the possible forking and off-topic cross-rejoinders are 
>>>> good reasons not to cross-post in the first place.
>>>> 
>>>> - Dennis
>>>> 
>>>> PS: I also have no idea how and why this list was created, but it is 
>>>> closer to my personal interests than the overall VRM topic.  I don't 
>>>> think personal clouds are a subset of VRM, although they may be material 
>>>> to VRM.
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: 
>>>> 
 
>>>>  
>>>> [mailto:
 ]
>>>>  On Behalf Of Mary Hodder
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 10:14
>>>> To: 
>>>> 
 
>>>> Cc: Project VRM
>>>> Subject: Re: [personal-clouds] [projectvrm] Cookie Doom Already 
>>>> Appearing in Data | ComScore Shames Ad Clutterers | Global Adspend in 
>>>> Doldrums as Dog Bites Man - MarketingVOX
>>>> 
>>>> Can I ask, why are we doing this.. with two e-mail list addresses?
>>>> 
>>>> We talk about exactly the same things on both lists..
>>>> and Clouds are a subset of the VRM topic
>>>> and for me, I have two different email addresses that work for the 
>>>> lists.. so I can't even reply-all
>>>> and it's annoying to get TWO email.. for each post
>>>> 
>>>> So.. I ask, why are we doing this.. with two lists.
>>>> 
>>>> Why can't we just use the list with more people on it (VRM -- as it's 
>>>> been around for 7 years)
>>>> and get one email per thread?
>>>> 
>>>> mary
>>>> 
>>>> [ ... ]
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>