Re: [projectvrm] France considering tax on personal data

[Iain Henderson < >]

Yes, taxing organisational use of personal data is an interesting idea, but 
inserts a government un-necessarily in the individuals personal data 
eco-system.

Or to put that another way, if My Data is an asset, how long till the 
government tries to tax me on that…? 

When My Data becomes the dominant source of personal data (which is a when 
rather than an if), then the individual should be the one putting a tax on 
its use, which would also include government use.

Cheers

Iain


On 22 Jan 2013, at 11:05, Aurelie Pols 
<
 >
 wrote:

> Thank you Sylvain and Daniel for sharing. 
> I'm also rather relieved to see that this might go beyond the merely French 
> context and enter EU-level negotiations as Sylvain noted.
> 
> While I do believe that more unification regarding the tax regime is 
> starting to become a real necessity, I can't help but appreciate what the 
> French are doing. Ever since the WEF paper about Personal Data being an 
> asset class 
> (http://www.weforum.org/reports/personal-data-emergence-new-asset-class) 
> was released, this was just a logical consequence waiting to happen imho. 
> While wondering how a value could be put on such a scheme of course! 
> The article mentions auditing (what? a Pan-European 
> Jic?http://www.i-jic.org/about.php?PHPSESSID=c60212f3b2927ea8552510149bd26e09)
>  and we all know it's been a rather messy ride so far between the various 
> European countries to get audience measurement straightened out!
> 
> Looks like The Next Web also picked it up: 
> http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/01/21/should-google-and-facebook-be-taxed-for-collecting-your-personal-data-french-president-hollande-thinks-so,
>  not quite grasping the concept entirely. 
>  
> I'm curious about how all this will turn out. It feels like the first 
> stones of something important to be built!
> 
> 5 euro cents from Madrid, kind regards,
> Aurélie Pols
> 
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 10:18 AM, sylvain willart 
> <
 >
>  wrote:
> Link to the full report:
> 
> http://www.redressement-productif.gouv.fr/files/rapport-fiscalite-du-numerique_2013.pdf
> (200 pages in "administrative french")
> 
> It's indeed pro-VRM in a way (Doc's books, Cluetrain Manifesto and
> Intention Economy, are in the References, along with Kaplan's)
> It also take some ideas from the book of Verdier & Colin ("l'âge de la
> multitude"), especially the fact that the wealth of net-economy is
> created by the users (users that post, pin, update status... and give
> away info about themselves). This value is taken off-shore by
> net-companies to countries where there is no tax.
> 
> The idea is thus to tax companies in the countries where their users
> (aka employees actually) live.
> It is in a way similar to the new tax scheme that some US States
> (especially California) want to impose on Amazon.
> 
> If the report has any future (and I personnaly hope it will), it may
> be integrated in the 2014 Budget Act (to be voted before the end of
> 2013). But authors also emphasize it would be difficult and dangerous
> to enact in one country alone. So there may be negociations at the
> EU-level along this year.
> 
> From a "soft power" view, I also think France wants to keep a kind of
> leadership in personal data protection. The CNIL (french data office)
> was ahead of this debate in the 80's, but is now overwhelmed by
> projects from Europe (project 2011/0011 to be presented at th
> Parliament by the end of this month) and Canada (Cavoukian's Privacy
> by Design). But this last point is very personal opinion.
> 
> Sylvain Willart
> PhD
> 
> 2013/1/22 Drummond Reed 
> <
 >:
> > Daniel, this is indeed a very interesting twist. I too look forward to 
> > more
> > news as you have it about this.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > =Drummond
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Joyce Searls 
> > <
 >
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> Daniel,
> >>
> >> That is a helpful caveat. Please let us know whatever else you discover
> >> after you read the report.
> >>
> >> Joyce
> >>
> >> On Jan 21, 2013, at 12:42 PM, Daniel Kaplan 
> >> <
 >
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> > We at Fing haven't been involved directly, but we did interact with one
> >> > of the report's authors.
> >> >
> >> > First of all, it's just a report at the moment. The issue this report
> >> > had to deal with is simple: Google, FB and other (mostly American) 
> >> > major
> >> > internet players who live off advertising revenues, bill French firms 
> >> > to
> >> > advertise towards French customers, and pay no taxes at all in France.
> >> > Basically, the advertising industry is producing less and less taxable
> >> > revenues, even though its overall revenues are rising. France is not 
> >> > alone
> >> > in worrying about that, especially in Europe.
> >> >
> >> > So what the report's two authors were looking for, was a source of
> >> > economic (hence taxable) valuer that was clearly ascribable to one 
> >> > specific
> >> > country. Since personal data are (pre-VRM) a major source of wealth for
> >> > organizations who store them, why not make it the basis on which 
> >> > Google et
> >> > al's taxable revenues are calculated? After all, most people live 
> >> > somewhere
> >> > within national borders.
> >> >
> >> > Now, I'm aware many of you may not loooove taxes, however they're
> >> > sourced or computed. But here's the interesting part: The report 
> >> > suggests
> >> > that the tax could be reduced if companies make specific and measurable
> >> > efforts to allow individuals to access, control, port and use their own
> >> > data.
> >> >
> >> > So in effect, we're talking about a pro-VRM tax incentive.
> >> >
> >> > I still need to read the full report, but this is the general idea.
> >> >
> >> > Daniel
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 2013/1/21 Johannes Ernst 
> >> > <
 >
> >> >
> >> > http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/21/business/global/21iht-datatax21.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
> >> >
> >> > If it's an asset class, it should be taxed, no? ;-)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > FING - association pour la Fondation Internet Nouvelle Génération
> >> > The Next-Generation Internet Foundation
> >> > Daniel Kaplan - 
> >> > 
 
> >> >  - +33 6 8962 9968
> >> > http://www.fing.org  /  http://www.internetactu.net
> >> > Paris : nouvelle adresse - 8 passage brulon - 75012
> >> > Marseille : CMCI, 2 rue Henri Barbusse - 13001
> >> >
> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -- 
> Aurélie Pols
> 
> Skype: aurelie.pols
> Mobile: + 34 664 28 88 06


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