+1 Mark. Katherine Warman Kern 203.918.2617 On Aug 19, 2012, at 3:41 PM, Mark Slater <
">
> wrote: What they are doing actually is what this group should be applauding loudly. While there is much debate to be had about how they are technically trying to accomplish what they articulate - Whats lost in the discussions here is that they are going after - and beginning to succeed in gaining - the mind-share of the masses by touching on nerves that people of all ilk can relate to. Not using acronyms and opaque (in the mind of Jo public) descriptors to explain such constructs like VRM and calf cow - this will never elevate the widespread support and adoption of these issues.
They have simply said to the world - NO MORE ADS. The world has responded with interest. If they were to say TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR DATA then you would have heard...crickets.
I can tell you, as someone who has a start-up that is venture funded and falls on the intention VS attention half of the pitch (thats a field for the Americans) - convincing investors at large of the value of consumer control in the conversation is very difficult. When we use simple to understand explanations like - "once you are done with the conversation with the business, simply kill the communications channel (x out the chat) and the merchant cant reach you" - this begins to resonate.
But getting beyond simple user stories of " i use this service because i dont want to see any ads" or "i use this service because I control the conversation path" is never going to gain mindshare with jo public.
What these guys are doing is waving a big banner that can be seem from far around concepts we all subscribe too - whether they technically miss the ark or not - Jo public is reacting to "not seeing any more ads."
Mark
On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Mr. Jim Pasquale <
" target="_blank">
> wrote:
Agreed, however, when it comes to API's where is Lord Burton, and some musing when we need it?
On Aug 13, 2012, at 11:23 PM, Doc Searls wrote: Nice summary, Joe. That's my take as well, from what I gather so far.
Doc
Jim, App.net isn't open sourcing its codebase, nor is their API an open standard. It's an open API, but it's theirs, not one that is available for widespread licensing or collaborative development. They are using standards like Activity Streams where it makes sense, but they are not making those standards the backbone of their API.
In theory, anyone else that launches with the same API can work together. However, App.net is NOT open source. So, there won't be an open codebase for other services to launch on. That $500,000+ is going to build a proprietary system that isn't beholden to advertisers (yay!), but is only going to be used for one service, controlled by a single entity (boo!). Kudos for them to go direct to the market for their "angel" round of funding. I'm a backer and I wish them luck. It'll be interesting to see where it goes. But, at the end of the day, it's not even as distributed as the web, which we all realize suffers from calf/cow disease.
In fact, although I like their commitment to data exportability, it will be surprising if they really enable full substitutability, the kind one finds with LAMP stack applications that can be moved from web host to web host. Will everything work seamlessly when I move my contacts from their service? Or will I just be able to extract the posts and uploads I've made?
We'll see. Any way it goes, it's good to have another entrepreneur putting marketing and code into services that are truly acting in the individual's interest. -j
On Mon, Aug 13, 2012, at 04:08 PM, Jim Bursch wrote:
There's a logic problem I'm having.
"app.net is still based on a centralized model"
If a hundred -- a thousand -- app.nets were launched, they would all be guilty of being based on a centralized model. But if they all supported cross-posting and portability of user data, wouldn't we then have a distributed network?
The logic of ad-supported media is the logic of economy of scale and network effects, which is very attractive to advertisers and attracts their dollars, and supports sickening anti-competitive behavior. Not to be an apologist, but my understanding of the premise of app.net (and my reason for supporting it) is that it aligns the financial interest of the service with its customers who pay for the service (as opposed to exploiting the content/data of users for the sake of advertisers). App.netis operating on a very different premise, and giving us an opportunity to test that premise, and if it is successful, it will be a model that will spawn copiers and competitors. The app.net originators won't get grossly rich in this model, but a lot more people will be making a living serving the market that app.net showed was possible.
By the way, one of the features in the alpha is a data export function (one of the very few functions currently available). Jim Bursch
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NoHo20 presents: "Critic's Dilemma"
http://noho20.com On 8/13/2012 10:06 AM, Doc Searls wrote:
See Dave Winer on this:
http://scripting.com/stories/2012/08/13/anotherUseFor50.html
Specifically,
app.net is still based on a centralized model, and I happen to believe that a decentralized approach is the only one that works long-term. It's the only way to preserve freedom of speech, and to allocate costs fairly to the people who use the most resources. And to provide a variety of tools and environments to satisfy a wide variety of use-cases.
So I'd like to put an alternate idea out there.
A microblogging server that's a simple install on EC2 or Rackspace or any other easy cloud-based server.
Would that be Status.net?
Doc
On Aug 13, 2012, at 12:42 PM, Jim Bursch
" target="_blank"><
> wrote:
When I logged in this morning I saw that App.net has well exceeded its goal to raise $500k from 10k users.
It will be interesting to see what comes next.
I'm on board as a developer. Any other VRMites out there who are members? Perhaps we can get organized and see what we can do to bring VRM principles and practices to the App.net community/platform.
I have posted the #VRM hashtag on the alpha stream: https://alpha.app.net/
For more info on this App.net thing, go to http://join.app.net
--
Jim Bursch
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