Text archives Help


Re: [projectvrm] Anonymity


Chronological Thread 
  • From: Doc Searls < >
  • To: Paul Chapman < >
  • Cc: ProjectVRM list < >
  • Subject: Re: [projectvrm] Anonymity
  • Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 23:22:50 -0400

On Sep 26, 2011, at 10:48 PM, Paul Chapman wrote:

+1  "Celebrity in this sense is a Faustian bargain that requires trade of what we call anonymity"

... and thus we have an explanation for the appeal of social media -- we can all be celebrities now. Taking it a step further, many of us are now required to be.

"In the future everybody will be famous for fifteen minutes." - Andy Warhol

"In the future everybody will be famous for fifteen people." - David Weinberger

"In the present everybody will be famous for everybody." - Twitter

"In the present everybody will be famous with Facebook, which will follow them everywhere like a crotch-sniffing dog they can't shake." - Facebook

Correct any way you like. Just thinking out loud here.

Doc

This morning on the way to the airport, Joyce explained a bit more about what she meant.

It has more to do with being alone and not bothered, and having the option of that, as a way of maintaining one's own mental health, and for a functioning society in which there are working and shared assumptions about what's private and what's not.

Even in primitive societies, where everybody knows everybody else, there is an assumption that people need to be alone sometimes. Also on research vessels, such as one we visited recently in Woods Hole, where a couple dozen people go out to sea for months at a time, they make a point of giving people times and spaces where they can find respite from human contact.

Most of us can move about the world without a sense of being followed, or even recognized, most of the time. Celebrity in this sense is a Faustian bargain that requires trade of what we call anonymity, for lack of a better term.

We haven't worked this stuff out online yet. And we won't work it out as long as the server-based dominant side controls the means of engagement, and the agreements we reach about how we operate together.

And, while our discussions about identity are important and interesting, I think they are also beside a development point: we need some key inventions we don't have yet -- new inventions that mother new necessities.

This is why I wrote <http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/vrm/2011/09/24/enough-with-browsers-we-need-cars-now/>.

I think we have pieces of cars, or bicycles, or motorcycles, or trucks. But we don't have something as complete and useful any one of those things, or as a browser. We can make browsers better, and we can make client-server better, if we come up with means that make peer-grade agreements possible. But we also need to think and create outside the browser box.

Doc

On Sep 26, 2011, at 9:08 PM, Joe Andrieu wrote:

> A while back Doc wrote:
>> When I wondered about the connection between anonymity and principles, Joyce
>> said this:
>>
>> "You can't have true autonomy unless you can move in an anonymous way."
>>
>
> I think this is a bit of a red herring.  It's true and interesting, but
> it's not particularly relevant, because we don't want and can never
> actually have true autonomy unless we return to a state of nature.
>
> The entire point of society is to give up some of our natural rights in
> order that we might construct a better living. Even in the most
> libertarian views of the world, your autonomy ends where your neighbor's
> begins.  Negotiating those boundaries is the whole point of the social
> contract that creates our civic world.  What we're doing here with VRM
> is renegotiating that contract given the capability of the Internet to
> do things better.
>
> There is an argument that freedom requires anonymity. But that's not
> actually true. For two reasons.
>
> First, what freedom needs is the ability to engage in discourse without
> fear of reprisal from those who have a different view. If we can't
> engage in that discourse, there's no way for us, as a society, to fully
> consider the issues at hand.  Anonymity is one way to do that, to a
> point. It certainly helps bring out contentious claims and counter
> points. But for any of those divergent views to actually change the
> system, you need relationships and credibility.  So, while you might
> want anonymity from an oppressive state, you actually rely on being
> known by your fellow revolutionaries as someone they can trust.  I want
> to be able to discuss what matters to me among my friends without being
> called to a congressional hearing about it, but I don't need to be
> anonymous when talking with those friends. Far from it, I want to know
> who they are and vice versa, because it's the relationship that makes me
> feel safe exploring unconventional ideas.
>
> Second, anonymity is never really possible. Mathematically, you are as
> anonymous as the number of people you can be confused with. It is a
> sliding scale of certainty that "you" are "you" to a mere estimate that
> "you" are one of several billion people. We literally have professions
> and degrees you can get for people trained in reducing those billions
> into legally actionable certainty. Forensics and plain old detective
> work can turn what might seem like an anonymous interaction on your
> public library's web terminal to an eye-witness and evidentiary tale
> that can get you convicted in court for what happened on that terminal.
> For all practical purposes, anonymity is a function of the cost of
> determining a correlatable identity.  If it's worth it to find out who
> that "anonymous" actor is, it can usually be done.  And society has
> consistently allowed gross breaches of our freedoms in pursuit of the
> identity of various criminals. The conversation to be had is about the
> price we are willing to pay in that pursuit and what burden of proof is
> needed to move to the next stage. So while we can shape how much we'll
> pay to resolve anonymity to identity, we can't actually assure
> anonymity.
>
> Instead, I think instead of anonymity, what we really want are two
> things, both of which Lewis Hyde discusses rather eloquently in Common
> as Air.
>
> First, we want to be free from tyranny. That is, we want to avoid power
> from one domain applied in another. We don't want our boss telling us
> what we can do in our time off. We don't want the government telling us
> how we can worship. We don't want our computer maker telling us what
> software we can and cannot run. And we don't want anyone telling us what
> we can and cannot do on other people's websites.  Anonymity is one way
> to avoid certain types of tyranny. But it also enables other types.  How
> much does it suck that the only time you can truly express yourself is
> when you're anonymous?  That's not the kind of world I want to live in.
>
> Second, we want interstitial spaces where we, as a society, can engage
> in discourse about the boundaries between one domain and another without
> any particular domain having the upper hand. For example, we need
> intelligent--not belligerent--debates about whether fair use is more
> important than preventing unauthorized duplication.
>
> One of our biggest problems is that the two primary interstitial spaces
> of legal standing, the courts and the legislature, are dominated by
> moneyed interests, namely corporations and the wealthy. Between
> lobbyists and well-paid lawyers, it's very hard for the average person
> to be heard in those fora.  Again, anonymity can provide a means for
> participating in discourse, but that's still less desirable than
> speaking freely to our brothers, parents, neighbors, and bosses without
> fear of reprisal... and have them know that we are that sibling, child,
> neighbor or employee.  A heartfelt argument means more when it comes
> from someone you know, someone you get is a "normal" person.
>
> So, while anonymity is an easy option as a rebuttal to the surveillance
> state, I don't think it is actually what we want.  Instead, we want to
> be able to connect in contexts where our exposure is understood and
> acceptable, where we know what we are getting into, where we can tell
> the difference between an intimate chat with friends, and taking a stand
> at a city council hearing.  Being anonymous helps us avoid certain types
> of tyranny, but it doesn't contribute to the fabric of a healthy
> society.
>
> Anonymity is a special case of privacy. And privacy is contextual. If we
> can resolve the context management problem, we can solve them both.
>
> -j
>
> --
> Joe Andrieu
> SwitchBook Software
> " target="_blank">
> +1(805)705-8651
>




--
Paul Chapman ~ Director







Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.19.