RE: [projectvrm] Google and VRM

["Joe Andrieu" < >]

Taylor,

You hit the nail right on the head.

The intention economy is about tapping into customer demand as it manifests,
rather than driving demand or guessing about latent demand.

Not that driving demand is bad... when done respectfully it can be very
cool. Nor is guessing about latent demand bad... being right when you
predict where the market is going can be incredibly lucrative, whether
you're talking about customers or commodities (think stock market).

But when you are tapping into demand as it manifests, timely data is how you
get the "as it happens" part working. Combine that with long term knowledge
you have about market propensities, including your proprietary understanding
of market dynamics, and you have a forward thinking responsiveness grounded
in fundamentals of the marketplace.

That's huge potential, just waiting to be unlocked once we can streamline
the real-time expression of intention and sharing of information on the
users' terms.

-j

--
Joe Andrieu
SwitchBook 
http://www.switchbook.com

 
+1 (805) 705-8651 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taylor Davidson 
> [mailto:
 ]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 10:35 AM
> To: Joe Andrieu
> Cc: Toon Vanagt; 
> 
 ;
> 
 ;
>  
> 
 
> Subject: Re: [projectvrm] Google and VRM
> 
> Just a simple note to add to Toon, on the freshness of data and its
> value:
> 
> There is no single answer here; old and new data have different
> degrees of value to different companies (at different times).  Usage,
> product replacement and sales cycles are not ubiquitous across
> products or services, and thus in many cases "old" data can be just as
> valuable as "new" if one is trying to determine (as a buyer or a
> seller) if the other party in the transaction is ready, willing and
> able.
> 
> What Joe is pointing to is the difference between a company trying to
> predict who their next customer is and targeting them (selling "to"
> them) vs. a company responding to customers and intentions (selling
> "with" them?).
> 
> ... please correct me if I'm wrong, Joe :)
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> TAYLOR DAVIDSON
> http://www.taylordavidson.com
> http://www.unstructuredventures.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Joe Andrieu 
> <
 >
> wrote:
> > Toon,
> >
> >
> >
> > Great perspective. Elias has some good points, though.
> >
> >
> >
> > In your own case, imagine that you had a database of local home
> improvement
> > opportunities, something you've built up with proprietary insights
> into
> > repair & renovation work actually done on the houses within your
> service
> > radius.
> >
> >
> >
> > How valuable is that if the data is 5 years old-or worse,
> inconsistently 6
> > months - 10 years old? Verses how valuable it is if it includes-
> voluntarily,
> > by user choice-the sales receipts of all the local hardware stores
> covering
> > this season's actual spending for home owners who have asked for
> feedback.
> >
> >
> >
> > Seems to me that this hyper-fresh data is going to give you insight
> into
> > /current/ intention, not just statistical probability based on
> historical
> > trends.  This means, you can probably identify the sales
> opportunities that
> > are, right now, looking for help (they've asked for it via a VRM
> > intention-based system) and are therefore qualified leads that are
> worth it
> > for you to call and give a free estimate. It gives you a way to
> cherry pick
> > the best possible clients for your particular service.
> >
> >
> >
> > That's the kind of freshness I think Elias is working towards.
> >
> >
> >
> > -j
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Joe Andrieu
> > SwitchBook
> > http://www.switchbook.com
> > 
 
> > +1 (805) 705-8651
> >
> >
> >
> > From: 
> > 
 
> >  
> > [mailto:
 ]
> >  On Behalf Of
> Toon
> > Vanagt
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:41 AM
> > To: 
> > 
 
> > Cc: 
> > 
 ;
> >  
> > 
 
> > Subject: Re: [projectvrm] Google and VRM
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Elias,
> >
> >
> >
> > I only recently discovered I've been working in the VRM industry for
> a
> > decade and I have been following this list with great interest over
> the last
> > few months.
> >
> >
> >
> > I disagree with the value you base on 'data freshness'. Your argument
> that
> > 'snapshots are useful only to historians' probably applies to fast
> moving
> > consumer goods & many short term services.
> >
> >
> >
> > However home ownership and the improvement industry have much longer
> 'life
> > cycles' and slow trends. Consumers replace their kitchen, central
> heating or
> > bad room every 10-15 year. In Europe average home ownership exceeds
> those
> > replacements periods with a multiple. So for my construction related
> > Internet business (since 2000) it seems useful to know when my
> customers
> > last replaced/build a kitchen, bathroom, extension,... As
> intermediates we
> > also store the satisfaction of our users with those contractors we
> > have recommended. We also know if they appreciated our previous
> matchmaking
> > effort.
> >
> >
> >
> > These historic home improvement project details now put us in a
> unique
> > position to suggest follow-up improvement and maintenance projects to
> our
> > customer base. In the current 'down market' this allows us to
> generate
> > extra revenues for our contractors as we turn these typical
> > 'once-in-a-life-time-customers' in to repeat-purchasers. Construction
> > professionals need new projects more now than ever before and most
> are not
> > exactly marketing savvy. Their margins have gone down as a result of
> the
> > crisis too. Home owners get extra value for their money compared to
> last
> > year and hardly any waiting time for execution. Since there is added
> value
> > for all parties involved, we've got ourselves a market.
> >
> >
> >
> > Which other VRM list subscribers work in industries with long life
> cycles
> > and delayed repeat/replacement purchases, where historic data (could)
> > benefit both customer, intermediate and vendor/provider?
> >
> >
> >
> > @frank: Keep up your VRM poetry: 'The blush is off the rose and it
> smells
> > sickly sweet'.
> >
> > With long life cycles above and Gertrude Stein in mind, I would add
> 'A
> > customer is a customer is a customer is a customer' :)
> > @Doc: keep up the great work! Your VRM list became my regular dose of
> > brain oxygen to fuel operational tasks.
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >
> >
> > Toon
> >
> > --------------------
> >
> > Toon Vanagt
> > Managing Partner
> > Casius
> >
> > de Henninstraat 74
> >
> > 1050 Brussels
> >
> > Belgium
> > Tel: +32 2 788 18 00
> > FAX: +32 2 788 18 08
> > Mobile:  +32 479 27 29 29
> > 
 
> >
> > www.Casius.com (English)
> >
> > www.Casius.be (Dutch, French & a little English)
> >
> > www.Casius.nl (Dutch only)
> >
> >
> >
> > http://twitter.com/toon
> >
> > www.vanagt.com
> >
> >
> >
> > P.S. Below is a little more on my VRM business. The Casius internet
> platform
> > assists home owners to realize their construction and renovation
> projects,
> > by matching them with qualified local contractors, who provide a free
> > quote.  I co-founded Casius.com in 1999 and learned a lot while
> burning
> > 4.000.000 EUR of venture capital. Through a MBO, I acquired the
> company from
> > the VC in 2005 and we are profitable ever since.
> >
> >
> >
> > How does it work?
> > The Casius website helps consumers to define their project in an
> innovative
> > way. Our teams check the project details and send an anonymous
> project
> > summary to the most appropriate and qualified local contractors. Only
> those
> > contractors who are interested and available, respond to Casius and
> receive
> > the consumer's contact details (max. 3). Our service is free for home
> > owners, whom decide which offer suits them best. The affiliated
> contractors
> > pay Casius a fee to receive qualified "leads" from these home owners.
> >
> > Empowered by valuable consumer feedback: Web 2.0 since 2000
> > For each project Casius has treated, feedback was requested from the
> home
> > owners on the quality of the contractor and service offer. This way a
> > permanent quality check is processed for each contractor (over 90.000
> quotes
> > so far).
> >
> > Casius "Certified" Professionals
> > The contractors undergo a severe quality check on entering the Casius
> > network. Each Casius professional has to meet the following criteria:
> > - Sufficient recommendations form home owners, who previously used
> their
> > services.
> > - Minimum 2 year of independent professional activity.
> > - Legal background check
> > - Required national registration and certification obligations
> >
> > After entering the network, the continuous consumer feedback helps
> Casius to
> > refer only the best professionals.
> >
> > Some Numbers
> > The Benelux Casius network consists of 1.400 independent contractors,
> > architects, gardeners,.
> > Over 90.000 consumers have used and rated the Casius service to find
> their
> > professional in the BeNeLux with an average executed project value of
> 11.400
> > EUR. A team of 15 experts works full time from our offices in
> Brussels and
> > Amsterdam.
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 12:14 PM, 
> > <
 >
> >  wrote:
> >
> > ------------------------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------------------
> -----
> > Onderwerp: Re: [projectvrm] Google and VRM
> > Van:       "Elias Bizannes" 
> > <
 >
> > Datum:     Di, 17 februari, 2009 11:59
> > Aan:       "Luk Vervenne" 
> > <
 >
> > CC:        "dsearls" 
> > <
 >
> >           "Adriana Lukas" 
> > <
 >
> >           "frankxr" 
> > <
 >
> >           "Naos Wilbrink" 
> > <
 >
> >           "ProjectVRM list" 
> > <
 >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Bah! So what if a corporation 'owns' your data.
> >
> > A company monetises data if
> > 1) they can sell copies of the data (customer lists)
> > 2) they can sell access to the data (advertising)
> > 3) they can sell perception of perceived value (venture capitalists
> > thinking data = monetisation)
> >
> > But the thing about data, is that for it to be useful (and truly
> > valuable), it needs to be recent. No one wants a customer list that's
> got
> > the wrong address.
> >
> > Try this excercise: Imagine it's the year 1995 (those long gone
> chasin'
> > waterfalls years). Reflect privately to the following on your:
> > - Age
> > - Employer
> > - Income
> > - Education level
> > - relationship status
> > - address
> > - city of abode
> > - primary e-mail account
> >
> > Now re-answer those questions in the context of that J-lo 2000
> period. Now
> > try 2005 when Shakira was shaking it.
> > And now compare it to today.
> >
> > Are they different? For most, they should be.
> >
> > A company can pretend they own you, but they literally can't. Their
> entire
> > monetisation is based on the fact they have the most up to data about
> you:
> > all we need to do is educate acquirers, advertisers, VC's that the
> data
> > isn't recent and you've just put a fire in a company's house. Access
> to
> > the most up to date data is what companies really want; snapshots are
> > useful only to historians. Even if people guess the future state of
> > someone based on past data, verified data recognised by the person in
> > question will always be more valuable.
> >
> > Elias Bizannes
> > http://liako.biz
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 9:33 PM, Luk Vervenne 
> > <
 >
> wrote:
> >
> >> Or: it's site-centric, not user-centric, (and for Adriana) let alone
> > user driven.
> >>
> >> Luk Vervenne
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: dsearls 
> >> [mailto:
 ]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 12:28 AM
> >> To: Adriana Lukas; frankxr
> >> Cc: Naos Wilbrink; ProjectVRM list
> >> Subject: Re: [projectvrm] Google and VRM
> >>
> >> Facebook is one big node, and in it we are but mitochondria.
> >>
> >> It's still AOL 2.0.
> >>
> >> Feh.
> >>
> >> Doc
> >>
> >> At 5:36 PM +0000 2/16/09, Adriana Lukas wrote:
> >> >And in the meantime, in the real world as they say, Facebook's new
> TOS:
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> http://consumerist.com/5150175/facebooks-new-terms-of-service-we-
> can-do-any
> > thing-we-want-with-your-content-
> forever<http://consumerist.com/5150175/facebooks-new-terms-of-service-
> we-can-do-any%0Athing-we-want-with-your-content-forever>
> >> >
> >> >A
> >> >--
> >> >The network is always stronger than the node...
> >> >but a network starts with a node.
> >> >
> >> >http://www.mediainfluencer.net
> >> >http://www.vrmhub.net
> >> >http://www.themineproject.org
> >> >
> >> >Background:
> >> >http://www.mediainfluencer.net/about/
> >> >
> >> >Skype: adriana872
> >> >Twitter: adriana872
> >> >UK mobile: +44 787 6757129
> >> >US mobile: +1 732 447 5115
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >2009/2/16 frankxr 
> >> ><
 >:
> >> >> This is the  same marketing lingo facebook is trying with its
> > Facebook Connect program which is a web version of Windows auth and
> > API's -
> >> everyone
> >> >> wants to be the standard bearer.
> >> >>
> >> >> The blush is off the rose and it smells sickly sweet
> >> >>
> >> >> My concern would be that short sighted greed will result in
> support by
> >> those
> >> >> less seasoned that do not see the risk of investment.
> >> >>
> >> >> Frank
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Naos Wilbrink 
> >> >> [mailto:
 ]
> >> >> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:38 AM
> >> >> To: ProjectVRM list
> >> >> Subject: [projectvrm] Google and VRM
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Introducing Google's new Social Web Blog
> >> >>
> >> >> Google said:
> >> >> " Currently, you have friends locked up in one or more social
> > networks, social applications that work on only a few sites, and
> > multiple
> >> usernames
> >> >> and passwords to remember. It can be better, and we are
> developing
> >> >> tools
> >> to
> >> >> make "any app, any site, any friends" a reality."
> >> >>
> >> >> Will it then still be locked by Google or are they making
> products to
> > escape's google's silo?
> >> >>
> >> >> http://googlesocialweb.blogspot.com/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Naos Wilbrink
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Alan Patrick 
> >> >> [mailto:
 ]
> >> >> Sent: maandag 16 februari 2009 12:41
> >> >> To: ProjectVRM list
> >> >> Subject: Re: [projectvrm] new rules for new economy
> >> >>
> >> >> 
 
> >> >>  wrote:
> >> >>> Hi Doc,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Your comments raise an interesting point about metrics. Current
> > corporate metrics are narcissistic: they measure 'costs to us - the
> > corporation' and 'benefit to us - the corporation' without taking
> > account of the costs (or benefits) that might be incurred by third
> > parties such as customers, employees, the environment etc.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> In the sphere of customer relationships, this means that
> > corporations' measurement systems cannot tell the difference between
> > profits made by providing customers with value and profits made by
> > destroying customer value (i.e. by pulling the wool over customers'
> > eyes, 'outsourcing' costs to the customer, etc). To the accountant
> > looking at a
> >> >>> spreadsheet, they both look exactly the same - they both appear
> as
> > 'profits' or 'sales'. Worse: it's often easier to make 'bad' profits
> > by destroying customer value rather than good profits by improving
> > customer value.
> >> >> Another thought - if the company could see the end to end costs
> to them
> >> and
> >> >> csutomers, they may decide to do things differently.
> >> >>
> >> >> Rgds
> >> >>
> >> >> Alan
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Doc
> > Searls                                    http://doc.searls.com
> Senior
> > Editor, Linux Journal                http://linuxjournal.com Fellow,
> > Berkman Center, Harvard U.     http://cyber.law.harvard.edu Email:
> > 
 
> >                             Cell: 805-705-9666
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> E-mailbericht gecontroleerd door Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386)
> >> Databaseversie: 5.11770
> >> http://www.pctools.com/nl/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >