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Re: [projectvrm] Deep learning access to personal data


Chronological Thread 
  • From: katherine < >
  • To: John Wunderlich < >
  • Cc: Kevin Cox < >, LaVonne < >, Adrian Gropper < >, Scott < >, ProjectVRM list < >, Doc Searls < >
  • Subject: Re: [projectvrm] Deep learning access to personal data
  • Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 05:19:31 -0400
+1 great quote

Katherine Warman Kern



On Jul 17, 2016, at 7:22 PM, John Wunderlich < "> > wrote:

“Man is not a rational animal. Man is a rationalizing animal”

Ironically, I believe this is a quote or paraphrase from a Heinlein novel.


Sincerely,
John Wunderlich
@PrivacyCDN

Call: +1 (647) 669-4749
eMail: " target="_blank">

On 17 July 2016 at 17:16, Kevin Cox < " target="_blank"> > wrote:
John,

It is hard to get these ideas out of a community once they are there.  Here is a reference that
​ ​
says it is alive and well in today's economic courses.

http://www.alternet.org/books/one-most-pervasive-and-wrong-conservative-economic-myths-debunked

It is one of those things that fits with our experience.  We know that people look after things if they own them and we know that if people do not own something they often do not take care of them.  It fails to say that other approaches, such as the idea of custodial roles, are equally effective.

Another example is the meme of "I should own my own identity" prevent
​ing​
people considering alternatives like "our identities are a commons".

Kevin

On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 4:35 AM, John Wunderlich < " target="_blank"> > wrote:
Kevin;

Hardin's piece was almost immediately discredited on the historical evidence very shortly after is was published. It's meme status was achieved, IMHO, because notwithstanding it's counter factual nature the story itself fits into a particular set of ideological constructs about the role of individuals, community and society.  

John Wunderlich,

Sent frum a mobile device,
Pleez 4give speling erurz

"...a world of near-total surveillance and endless record-keeping is likely to be one with less liberty, less experimentation, and certainly far less joy..." A. Michael Froomkin

_____________________________
From: Kevin Cox < " target="_blank"> >
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2016 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [projectvrm] Deep learning access to personal data
To: LaVonne < " target="_blank"> >
Cc: Adrian Gropper < " target="_blank"> >, Scott < " target="_blank"> >, ProjectVRM list < " target="_blank"> >, Doc Searls < " target="_blank"> >



Garrett Hardin created a meme when he coined the phrase "Tragedy of the Commons".  Like all good Orwellian doublethink created for elites, it associated tragedy with the commons.  Closer to the truth would have been "Tragedy of Enclosure".  

Hardin was a Malthusian.  He based his meme on a pamphlet of William Forster Llyod an English 1833 apologist of the enclosure laws.  
​Not very convincing evidence.​


Elinor Ostrom's work on Commons shows that communities work out ways to successful manage Commons without resorting to ownership of the Commons.

Electronic Identity is a Commons.  It does not exist until entities
​ ​
mutually recognise other entities.  Our electronic identities are made up of sets of peer to peer mutual identifications.  This is a Commons.  We can manage the Identity Commons cooperatively without resorting to
​ ​
restrictions caused by ownership of our electronic identities.

What applies to Identity applies to all other transmitted data. Ownership of data is expensive to enforce.  Ownership allows the owner to restrict access. But, as soon as we transmit data
​,​
ownership enforcement costs a lot.  Instead of restricting access through ownership what we can do is to restrict access through agreement. We can do this through principles we have worked out for regulating other commons.

​Kevin​


On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 8:33 AM, LaVonne < " target="_blank"> > wrote:
+1 indeed

And Kevin, you nailed the updated PDEC statement of principles.

Sent from my iPhone
+1

Sent from my phone
The TC article is a great overview of the issues but it entirely misses the elephant in the room by pretending "informed" consent is possible for what Google (and NHS) are doing. Nobody knows how one's aggregated data will be used next month, much less next year.

Centralized technology for aggregation and AI need to be balanced by equally powerful personal authorization technology so that _nothing_ happens with my individual-level data without my decentralized (personal) technology being a party. 

Personal authorization must replace consent. Anything less does not allow for the diversity that keeps us healthy and human.

Adrian


On Saturday, July 16, 2016, Kevin Cox < " target="_blank"> > wrote:
The data collected about an individual should be made available only to the individual concerned.  Google should publish their algorithms, and what they are doing with the data and the results. Individuals should share in the value derived from the results.

If Google can collate information about individuals, they can distribute value to individuals. Individuals can share with the health providers. If they make inferences about individuals, that should only be available to the individual.

Another way is to give individuals access to their results and the individuals pass it on to Google (and others) - if they wish.

Kevin



On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 2:14 AM, Scott < " target="_blank"> > wrote:
TechCrunch on the user consent to access to their (particular medical) data.

https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/09/we-need-to-talk-about-ai-and-access-to-publicly-funded-data-sets/



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