Two things. First is that the "You can always stop going to the web site" is on a par with "Both a rich man and a poor man are free to sleep by a bridge under the stars". It's true but it doesn't reflect reality. The nature of the Internet and social sites are that utility and attractiveness increase geometrically as a function of users and it becomes socially and practically difficult to opt out of some sites.
The second thing is that it's not just ads. There are profilers and trackers that feed information into back end systems for other uses. You live farther from a store, you'll see higher prices on line. You fit a particular demographic profile, you'll be offered different credit cards or ratings (datalines replacing redlines for mortgages). An since the algorithms that make these decisions are proprietary we have no evidence that they are 'objective'. They could just as easily codify the social judgements and views of the programmers and company executives.
Joe;Two things. First is that the "You can always stop going to the web site" is on a par with "Both a rich man and a poor man are free to sleep by a bridge under the stars". It's true but it doesn't reflect reality. The nature of the Internet and social sites are that utility and attractiveness increase geometrically as a function of users and it becomes socially and practically difficult to opt out of some sites.The second thing is that it's not just ads. There are profilers and trackers that feed information into back end systems for other uses. You live farther from a store, you'll see higher prices on line. You fit a particular demographic profile, you'll be offered different credit cards or ratings (datalines replacing redlines for mortgages). An since the algorithms that make these decisions are proprietary we have no evidence that they are 'objective'. They could just as easily codify the social judgements and views of the programmers and company executives.At the end of the day, I'm perfectly willing to have ads display on my screen in return for free content. That's a reasonable trade-off. The problem is that I have no reason to believe that's the only trade-off going on and I won't castigate anyone for taking steps to protect their anonymity in those circumstances.You should also note that this argument is cast solely in the commercial sphere in a democratic country. Were I a democracy activist in the majority of the world's country's that are not democratic but who are included in the markets that are targeted there are a whole raft of other reasons to ensure a secure broswer with no tracking.JWOn 19 June 2015 at 01:29, Joe Andrieu < "> > wrote:This is like a bunch of toddlers fighting over who gets to play with thedoll.If you don't like the ads, don't go to those websites. You aren't forcedto.Sure, websites don't have the capability (or moral authority) to MAKEyou see the ads, but that is absolutely the quid-pro-quo that is payingfor the servers and the writers and the designers and the programmersand the sysadmins and the entire infrastructure that makes that pagepossible.Yes, ad blockers are a technically and morally valid response. You canbe a punk and thumb your nose at the "man" and while it may be rude tothe hard workers who made it possible and ethically questionable... it'stotally a choice you can make without breaking any laws or causing anyreal moral hazard.Mr. Barokas response is exactly the kind of counter you should expect.If you don't want to be a part of the quid-pro-quo, expect measures tobe taken to limit the quid you get without that quo.What's ridiculous, IMNSHO, is that Sourcepoint is getting such a sourread from this list. Yes, it sucks if you want to demand you should getfree content. But take a moment and read about how it ACTUALLY works:====Here's how Sourcepoint works: It will let a publisher decide how topresent a message to a web visitor that has an ad blocker installed. Thepublisher could choose to circumvent the ad blocker and serve the ad, orit could say to the visitor "our ads pay for your content, how about youchoose to allow them," or it could allow the user to choose theiradvertising experience (three ads for three stories, for example,) orthe publisher could ask them to pay to subscribe.Read more:====So, if you actually RTFA, you'll realize that Sourcepoint givespublishers a tool for increased engagement, and creates an opportunityfor greater choice (if the publisher is willing to take that route). Forthe first time, publishers have the ability to have a conversation withsite visitors in realtime, at the point of consumption, about whatquid-pro-quo might work for both parties. Contrast that to the rest ofthe ad marketplace where there is almost zero ability to express intentto anyone.Sure, maybe most publishers are just going to take option A and be dicksabout it. But publishers who want healthy relationships with theirreaders will explore those other options and there might actually emergea different model for how we finance content. Without that conversation,we got bupkis.Don't get me wrong, I think the whole ad-based business model isstructurally amoral. Not immoral. Amoral. The alignment of interests arebetween buyers and sellers of ads, and our attention is just the sausagefilling in the butcher's shop. So screw that.But wining about Sourcepoint is just an echo of the toddler crying"Mine! Mine! Mine!!!"As long as you're striving to put one over on the system, you shouldexpect the system to respond in kind.Your actual freedoms here are not being compromised. You can ALWAYS stopgoing to the website. If one year you have a nifty tool that gets youout of footing the attention bill that finances the whole shebang,WhoohoO! Good for you. You got away with a few dollars worth of freemedia. When that tool stops working, suck it up and either build a newtool or accept that your parasitic free ride has come to an end.-jOn Thu, Jun 18, 2015, at 04:29 PM, Mark Lizar wrote:> +1,>> Blocking ad’s is a consent preference.>> There is not contract or consent for serving ads, if someone blocks ad’s> the website doesn't have to let a visitor have access to the website.>>> > On 18 Jun 2015, at 18:36, Identity Coach < "> > wrote:> >> > Can't help but notice the entitlement in assuming that somehow we agreed to the ad-based model, or agreed by use of services from companies that choose this model over all other alternatives is somehow a meaningful assent to terms that most of us couldn't understand the meaning of if we tried.> >> > Yeah, I'm looking at Mr. "What Privacy?" Facebook and Mr. Do No Evil Google, two of a herd of bullies.> >> >> > -------- Forwarded Message --------> >> > A former Googler has declared war on ad blockers with a new startup> > that tackles them in an unorthodox way> >> >> > Speaking to Business Insider, Barokas explained that to solve the> > existential crisis ad blockers pose to publishers, Sourcepoint wants> > to help the publishing community solve two problems: It has the> > technology to punch through "all the ad blockers." And it wants to> > help publishers have a more open dialog with readers about the> > transaction that takes place when they consume content: The implicit> > (but often over-looked) understanding that publishers serve ads in> > exchange for content being presented for free. And that a transaction> > needs to take place in the first place because content requires> > investment.> >> > - - -> >> > As you probably know, I am *not* a fan of ad blocking in general, for a> > number of reasons. Whether or not the approach to the issue outlined> > here is practicable and what sorts of collateral push-back might be> > triggered are open questions at the moment.> >> > --Lauren--> > Founder:> > - Network Neutrality Squad: http://www.nnsquad.org> > - PRIVACY Forum: http://www.vortex.com/privacy-info> > Co-Founder: People For Internet Responsibility: http://www.pfir.org/pfir-info> > Member: ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy> > Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com> > Google+: http://google.com/+LaurenWeinstein> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/laurenweinstein> > _______________________________________________> > pfir mailing list> >> >> >>--
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