Re: [projectvrm] transactional vs experiential data

[Tom Crowl < >]

RE: contractural vs non-contractural (or experiential or whatever)... while the issue is of considerable interest ...

It all becomes moot if the mechanisms designed to resolve any disputes between the parties (e.g.legal/political system) are inadequate (or believed to be inadequate) to address an imbalanced power relationship between the parties (e.g large corporation vs isolated individual).

While this doesn't suggest ignoring various ways of securing, sharing, storing or protecting data... I believe VRM won't get where it needs to go w/o addressing this general feeling of political/commercial impotence. (a false belief in my opinion but there are a lot of those that are very widely held).

And if there's a general feeling of powerlessness within the system... an individual may not see much point worrying about his data... unless and until he/she believes differently.

I believe this may be a problem in getting traction for the VRM idea... and at least worth considering.

I suspect the fairly activist, thoughtful... and healthily contentious... members of this group are not representative of the general population.

Tom Crowl

http://CulturalEngineer.blogspot.com

On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Kevin Cox < " target="_blank"> > wrote:

Johannes,

There is no need to separate into contractual or non contractual if there is the concept of a contract with a personal cloud. If data is moved then there is always a contract with the receiving party. Sometimes the sender and the receiver are the same entity.

Kevin

On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 6:46 AM, Johannes Ernst < " target="_blank"> > wrote:

T.Rob got me thinking ... (I hate it when that happens! :-))

Let's say I buy a car from GM (not that I would, but bear with me and let's simplify assuming it is GM directly).

To buy that car, GM and I enter into a contract, which says they will do certain things (deliver X by Y in Z quality etc.) and I will do certain things (deliver $ by Y etc.). As part of 1) negotiating, 2) entering into and 3) fulfilling that contact, certain data gets generated. For example, what we said to each other during negotiations. The actual content of the contract (on paper if it is written, oral if otherwise) and later data that proves we are fulfilling our various obligations, such as a recording of the mileage on the car at the time of delivery.

I postulate that all of this data *must* be freely usable by both parties. (Imagine if I was prohibited from keeping a copy of the contract! A court would likely let me walk free if I didn't meet my part of the contact, on the grounds that I had no way of knowing what my obligations were or whether the other party met their's)

I think this is 100% of what T.Rob called "transactional", and I'd like to call "contract data" here. (If there is other "transactional" data that isn't part of a "contract" I'd love to hear about it.)

Now once I have that car, I happily drive through the countryside, and generate data in the process, such as where I went, when I filled up the tank, and how fast I went on the freeway. T.Rob calls this "experiential".

I'd like to slice it slightly differently, and categorize it into "contractual" and "non-contractual":

If the car purchase went through, and both parties have no further obligations to each other, all of this "experiential" data is "non-contractual" because it has no bearing on the contract that is completed and done. But if, for example, GM gave me a warranty that said I can return the car if the engine blows within 6 months, but only as long as I never drive faster than 25 mph, then some of this data is clearly "contractual": it's data that has a bearing on whether or not I met my obligations under the contract I entered into with GM. In older vehicles, that data did not exist, but now it does, and it would be sensible for GM to require me to provide it to we have some evidence to support the assessment whether the warranty clause should or should not trigger.

(This warranty example is just an example. There may be many other kinds of examples where data generated by the car, "experiental data" is relevant for assessing contract fulfillment.)

I'd argue that "experiential" data that is "non-contractual" has no business of being accessed by anybody other than me. But that "contractual" "experiential" data should be shared with both parties.

(Obviously, we can argue about what a contract should and should not say. But that's not my point here.)

</thesis>

Does this sound reasonable? It sounds to me like a good lens for looking at what data can and cannot be private.

Cheers,



Johannes.