Re: [projectvrm] Is VRM an Ideologically-inspired Dead-end?

[Doc Searls < >]

Agreed, and well put, Kevin.

On Mar 16, 2013, at 3:03 PM, Drummond Reed < "> > wrote:

Kevin, very well said. Sometimes I think that if all personal clouds did at the outset was to let users share the information that organizations held about them, it would be a huge hit. I think what you're doing with Edentiti is a great model for that.

On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Kevin Cox < " target="_blank"> > wrote:

VRM is part of the trend towards user managed access to information.  The driver of the trend is efficiency and flexibility and the trend is accelerating. In our own area of verification of identity it is blindingly obvious that user controlled verification of identity is cheaper and reduces fraud.  The only pre-requisite is for organisations to give users access to information held about them rather than organisations spreading information to other organisations. What is true for verification is true for intention to purchase.  Marketers can continue to guess and push information at people but those who take the trouble to ask their customers what they need and to respond to those needs will get better results.

The "ideological" aspects of increased privacy, more autonomy and a level playing field for transactions are emergent properties of these systems and are not the drivers.

Kevin Cox

On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 4:23 AM, < " target="_blank"> > wrote:

Not relevant to VRM per se, but Can't Buy Me Like is a idealistically-inspired prescription/prediction by two smart advertising guys. It was the best talk I heard at SXSW.

On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Don Marti < " target="_blank"> > wrote:

begin " target="_blank"> quotation of Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 08:27:27AM +0100:

> If we need better privacy, and I think we do, shouldn't we be agitating for just that, rather than the much more comprehensive VRM?

Maybe.

It's possible that VRM has enough of the nature of
IT consumerization, and cost-shifting to the customer
(both well-established trends) that it's a better deal
for vendors even if nothing changes in the privacy
technology or policy areas.

Take the same effect that Jakob Nielsen noticed for
Google here:
  https://www.nngroup.com/articles/search-engines-as-leeches-on-the-web/
and apply it internally--mathematically skilled
marketing people are expensive and will tend to drive
up their own price to consume any extra profit that
their skills bring in.  It could be more profitable
in the long run for the company to "do VRM" which
for most companies means "doing the web" -- giving
everything a URL and making it crawlable, and letting
customer-controlled systems crawl it.

On the other side, much of the decision-making around
marketing is surprisingly irrational, and there's
something satisfying to the marketing monkey brain
about having an increasingly detailed customer list
and being able to micromanange offers, whether or
not it's what Homo economicus would do if you made
_him_ VP of Marketing.

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Don Marti                      +1-510-332-1587 (mobile)
http://zgp.org/~dmarti/        Alameda, California, USA
" target="_blank">

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James H. Morris
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~jhm

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