Re: [projectvrm] Is VRM an Ideologically-inspired Dead-end?

Hi John

Thanks for your comment.

I agree with you about the privacy aspect. I rarely use Facebook and I 
regularly restart my browser having cleared down its cache, etc. I even 
looked at Ghostery the other day after T.Rob wrote about it (but decided that 
was a step too far without it becoming too big a part of my life).

If we need better privacy, and I think we do, shouldn't we be agitating for 
just that, rather than the much more comprehensive VRM?

Best regards from Cologne, Graham


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Am 15.03.13 um 22:56 schrieb John S James

> I'm retired, and interested in VRM because it's a new idea. But personally,
>
> like quite a few older "boomers," I want *simplification* in personal
>
> affairs. The less I have to do with any vendors, the better. So why run a
>
> personal server or even get a VRM account, when my main expenses are food,
>
> rent, and an occasional laptop or airfare?
>
>
>
> But public identity, including privacy, will be vital tools going forward.
>
> Most people do care about their reputations.
>
>
>
> And the prevailing political madness creates widespread unease about
>
> leaving traces all over the place. Who knows what laws and tyrants may do
>
> in the future? You don't need to be smart (or paranoid) to wonder what
>
> Hitler could have done with modern databases (and now, drones). Already
>
> people are being killed without even suspecting they are targeted. It will
>
> get worse, and it could happen here.
>
>
>
> So the observation that most people don't care about privacy is becoming
>
> less and less true.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Graham Hill 
> <
 >
>  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi Doc
>
> >
>
> > Thanks for responding to my post so quickly.
>
> >
>
> > Apologies to Joe for responding via his post.
>
> >
>
> > I think it is worthwhile pushing back at a number of points you made in
>
> > this and other email posts. In the interest of developing a synthesis in a
>
> > proper Hegelian Dialectic (Marketing works being essentially the thesis,
>
> > VRM is a better alternative for end-consumers being the antithesis).
>
> >
>
> > First, I would like to put a few of my cards on the table. I am not a big
>
> > fan of VRM. That is not primarily because I am a marketing consultant with
>
> > 20 years experience running marketing operations for major telcos, banks,
>
> > high-tech manufacturers and automotive manufacturers, but rather because I
>
> > think the value proposition for VRM has a massive fundamental flaw. Having
>
> > said that, I am always on the look-out for new ideas that can help my
>
> > clients make their marketing operations more effective. That is reason
>
> > enough to engage with VRM, and collaborative consumption, and co-creation,
>
> > and service-dominant logic, and a whole lot more besides.
>
> >
>
> > The naming of VRM is relatively trivial at this point in time as VRM, or
>
> > whatever you call it is clearly not ready for prime time yet. When it is
>
> > ready, main-stream marketers will help you change the name to something
>
> > that is a little more marketable and a whole lot more memetic.
>
> >
>
> > VRM has all the hallmarks of an inside-out concept developed by a small
>
> > group (even 1,000 people of which only a few % of them are actively
>
> > involved is still a small group) of marketing outsiders with an axe to
>
> > grind, rather than in response to an obvious need expressed by the
>
> > marketing or end-consumer market. The Henry Ford quote is an irrelevant 
> > old
>
> > chestnut that just illustrates how far away the inventors behind VRM are
>
> > from the innovations required by potential end-consumers. Your point is
>
> > well taken that many successful start-ups start with a great idea and then
>
> > take it to market. But the ones that usually prosper are the ones whose
>
> > products provide a better way to get an important end-consumer job done.
>
> > The ones that fail, indeed the 90% that fail, are those whose products are
>
> > irrelevant to end-consumers’ lives.
>
> >
>
> > The Apple iStores millions of apps are a great case in point. The apps
>
> > that do well are those that help end-consumers do one job really well,
>
> > whether keeping in contact with friends, finding out if their flight is on
>
> > time, or identifying the song playing in the background. App success
>
> > follows a power-law distribution; for every successful app that makes its
>
> > creator money there are thousands that lose their creators money hand over
>
> > fist. The ones that work are the ones that help end-consumers do an
>
> > important job better than the tools they currently have.
>
> >
>
> > The examples that you quote of PCs, graphical browsers and smartphones are
>
> > nice but also hardly relevant. And they miss the essential point that
>
> > winning start-ups typically focus on making life easier for end-consumers
>
> > to do things they want to do. VRM does not do this, nor from what I can 
> > see
>
> > (and I am willing to be corrected) has any substantive work been done to
>
> > look at, e.g. end-user shopping jobs-to-be-done, that would provide a 
> > clear
>
> > set of requirements as to how to help them. Instead, a group of smart
>
> > developers have taken it up themselves to develop products that the
>
> > end-consumer should like. Don’t be surprised if they don’t!
>
> >
>
> > I cannot for the life of me see why any end-consumer would be interested
>
> > in VRM in its current form. Or why any end-consumer would be bothered to
>
> > jump through all the hoops that it requires. Sure, there will always be a
>
> > few early adopters that like to try things out, however, these are often
>
> > not typically influencers. Why would an ordinary Joe, like me, bother to
>
> > send out an RFP for my weekly groceries, or my next pre-paid telephone SIM
>
> > card, or even my life insurance? There are plenty of intermediaries who
>
> > will help me do this and as all marketers know, we are creatures of habit,
>
> > unlikely to move supplier until things turn sour. And how would VRM help 
> > me
>
> > discover new product categories that I don’t even know exist? Social
>
> > curation through my peers will do that, but VRM? I don’t think so. And why
>
> > should I trust a VRM vendor (VRM Vendor Relationship Management anyone?) 
> > to
>
> > get me the best deal anyway. All I am doing is swapping one intermediary
>
> > that I know for a new one that untried and untested.
>
> >
>
> > I could potentially see why an advanced marketer would be interested in
>
> > VRM. If it helps them develop more profitable relationships with customers
>
> > that build incremental stickiness, loyalty and profitability. But 
> > marketers
>
> > have a veritable arsenal of tools at their disposal already to help them 
> > do
>
> > this: from good old promotions, through behaviourally targeted coupons, to
>
> > points-based loyalty programmes. All of these depend on the marketer
>
> > analysing the hell out of their existing customer data to identify little
>
> > groups that may be in the market for this product or that service. And it
>
> > clearly works. For a piece of frequent flyer programme strategy work that 
> > I
>
> > have been doing for an airline client I reviewed 20 econometric studies of
>
> > FFPs. A dominant airline at a hub with an FFP adds 12-18% of the average
>
> > fare paid to the ticket price through creating member lock-in and 6-14% of
>
> > the average fare paid to the price through reduced price sensitivity. With
>
> > results like these already available through tried and tested tools, why
>
> > would any FFP marketer be bothered to take a punt on VRM?
>
> >
>
> > VRM is an interesting idea. And the consumerist in side of me really wants
>
> > it to work. But currently it is just that; an idea. It’s biggest flaw is
>
> > that it doesn’t obviously help end-consumers to do anything that they 
> > would
>
> > remotely be expected to want to do. Now or in the future. Hoping that the
>
> > first few VRM apps will steer them away from marketing with its
>
> > behaviourally targeted messages, attractive promotions and addictive
>
> > loyalty schemes is pure fantasy. Sadly, hope is not a viable business 
> > model.
>
> >
>
> > I will stick with the VRM discussion through thick and thin. And if it
>
> > ever becomes even remotely viable, I will be the first to start to talk
>
> > about it to my corporate clients. But we are clearly not there yet.
>
> > Somehow, I doubt if we ever will. Show me I am wrong!
>
> >
>
> > Best regards from Cologne, Graham****
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Am 15.03.2013 um 16:46 schrieb Joe Andrieu:
>
> >
>
> > Agreed. PIDM has just as many shortcomings, if not more, than VRM. It even
>
> > costs 33% more in letterrs!
>
> >
>
> > Both names are so non-user friendly as to be practically useless in
>
> > describing the value proposition to regular folks.
>
> >
>
> > VRM worked because it created traction and I sometimes use it to direct my
>
> > discussions. If people know VRM, I can follow one path. Most do not, so I
>
> > focus on benefits and use cases.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > PIDM suffers the same "management" conundrum. Nobody wants to have to
>
> > manage anything. We just want to be able to. To me, PIDM ends up more
>
> > limiting than clarifying. Identity is simply how we correlate parties
>
> > between transactions. It's about how identifiers and identifying
>
> > characteristics can be used to build a consistent mental/data model across
>
> > contexts. It has nothing to do with the working data set that matters to
>
> > what anyone is doing at any given time. My word documents or spreadsheets
>
> > on my computer aren't my identity, but they are my data.
>
> >
>
> > The most important words in this email, for example, have nothing to do
>
> > with identity. But they are the important information context for anyone
>
> > who might want to contribute in a meaningful way. Yes, it might matter 
> > that
>
> > Doc said this or Nathan said that, or the Graham framed the initial post,
>
> > but the words used by each shape the meaning of their names at least as
>
> > much---and probably more than---their names shape the meaning of the 
> > words.
>
> >
>
> > In the US discourse on identity, this has led to a specific separation
>
> > between Identity Providers and Attribute Providers. Identity providers 
> > help
>
> > you correlate people from session to session. Attributes give you more
>
> > details about particular parties. Despite initially bundling attributes
>
> > with identity, those behind FICAM, OIX, IDESG, and NSTIC have all
>
> > acknowledged that identity and attributes are much more powerful and more
>
> > gracefully handled when separated.
>
> >
>
> > That said, identity should just work. And we should have sovereign control
>
> > over any information shared and used on our behalf.
>
> >
>
> > But I have no idea what term will gel in the public discourse for
>
> > describing the magic we're creating here. So, try another. Sooner or later
>
> > something will stick.
>
> >
>
> > -j
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2013, at 08:25 AM, Nathan Schor wrote:
>
> >
>
> > +1 Doc.  To paraphrase some admiral “Damn the term. Full speed ahead”
>
> >
>
> > Nathan Schor
>
> > 
 
>
> > 305.632.1368
>
> > *Office Tower2™ – ‘Changing ecommerce – one office building at a time.’™*
>
> > *NetMeals™* *– ‘Order online or wait in line.’™  *
>
> > *CompenSumer™ – ‘A penny for your thoughts but real money for your
>
> > intentions.’™*
>
> >
>
> > *From:* Doc Searls 
> > [mailto:
 <
 >]
>
> >
>
> > *Sent:* Friday, March 15, 2013 7:59 AM
>
> > *To:* Graham Hill
>
> > *Cc:* Nathan Schor; ProjectVRM list; T-Rob
>
> > *Subject:* Re: [projectvrm] Is it Time to Switch from VRM to PIDM
>
> >
>
> > Several points to make here.
>
> >
>
> > First, there's no need to choose one category name over another. They're
>
> > all fine. My personal inclination is to embrace everything that comes
>
> > along, and trust that whatever we end up will have a name. Or a number of
>
> > names. If VRM isn't one of them, I won't care.
>
> >
>
> > For example, last year Martin Kuppinger at KuppingerCole decided that
>
> > "Life Management Platforms" was a better and more encompassing term, and
>
> > category, than VRM: <
>
> > http://www.kuppingercole.com/report/advisorylifemanagementplatforms7060813412>.
>
> > Rather than fight it, I embraced it: <
>
> > http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/vrm/2012/05/15/life-management-platforms/>.
>
> > Likewise with UMA, with PIDM, with everything PDEC calls itself and its
>
> > categories. Let's give them all support and room to succeed.
>
> >
>
> > Second, we call what we're doing VRM for only one reason: the term caught
>
> > on in early days while others didn't, and we needed a name for the 
> > project.
>
> > The fact that business could understand VRM as the customer side
>
> > counterpart of CRM was helpful. But again, if something better comes 
> > along,
>
> > fine.
>
> >
>
> > Third, identity management is one thing that will happen, inevitably,
>
> > among other things in the VRM space. Choosing between VRM and PIDM is like
>
> > choosing between fruit and orange. Also, FWIW, the VRM was born in part 
> > out
>
> > of frustration with lack of progress in the identity development space.
>
> > I've been involved in that space since the '90s. IIW <
>
> > http://internetidentityworkshop.org> began as the "Identity Gang" on the
>
> > last day of 2004 (on the same Gillmor Gang podcast during which Mike 
> > Vizard
>
> > three years later uttered "VRM" for the first time). And IIW is still 
> > going
>
> > strong, more than eight years later. VRM and identity issues are dealt 
> > with
>
> > at IIW, side by side, twice a year, and progress always takes place.
>
> >
>
> > And terms evolve. "Personal RFP" is now "intentcasting." "Personal Event
>
> > Network" is now "Personal Cloud." Both may be called something else in
>
> > another year. Either or both may succeed or fail. We don't know yet. As
>
> > with life, every species is an experiment, and every one evolves, and
>
> > eventually fails. Meanwhile, life doesn't just go on; it multiples and
>
> > proliferates. The same goes for code, and for business. Look at apps. Six
>
> > years ago, the term wasn't even in use. Now there are millions of app
>
> > species. Six years from now, the whole category may be dead, and to have
>
> > fertilized a dozen others.
>
> >
>
> > Fourth, nobody is ever interested in a new category before it is given
>
> > shape by applications people want once they see them. Personal computing,
>
> > starting in '76, was positioned as "a way to do your checkbook and keep
>
> > recipes." Really. None of the early hardware makers were especially
>
> > successful, with the conditional exception of Apple, thanks to Visicalc.
>
> > IBM took a look at Visicalc and introduced the PC in '82. But even then 
> > the
>
> > PC succeeded in business in part because Attachmate and other companies
>
> > sold micro-to-mainframe cards that turned $2500 PCs into $1000 IBM 3270
>
> >  and DEC VT-100 and -200 "dumb terminals." But by then Visicalc had a
>
> > foothold, as did Wordstar and DOS. Lotus 123 picked up where Visicalc left
>
> > off, and a wave of applications followed. The Mac succeeded in part 
> > because
>
> > of Quicken, which really did, finally, eight years after PCs were born,
>
> > make balancing a checkbook easy. Quicken was an invention that mothered
>
> > necessity, as were the rest of the early programs. Still, business
>
> > dismissed PCs from '76 to '82, and ordinary people dismissed them until at
>
> > least '84.
>
> >
>
> > Likewise the Internet was nowhere until graphical browsers showed up. We
>
> > forget that Bill Gates saw no way the Net could make money for itself, or
>
> > anybody, until it was clear that Netscape's browsers and Web servers would
>
> > threaten Microsoft to the core. That was in '95, when the Net's protocols,
>
> > which we still use today, were up to decades old. Smartphones were Palm's
>
> > idea, but not many people took advantage of the apps on them, because they
>
> > were too hard to get and use. Once Apple showed how it could be done, the
>
> > market exploded. That was more than a decade after Palm began. I remember
>
> > an early VRM meeting at Berkman where Paul Trevithick said "Nothing that
>
> > requires a user install will succeed." That was true, then. But not long
>
> > after that, Apple made user-install easy, Google followed, and now all of
>
> > us install apps with ease all the time. Yet it would be easy to say there
>
> > was no appetite for the Internet in '93, or smartphones in '05. All we
>
> > needed were inventions to mother necessity.
>
> >
>
> > So, likewise, it's easy to say nobody cares about managing relationships
>
> > with vendors, because, obviously, they don't. Or, do they?
>
> >
>
> > What about the stacks of loyalty cards people keep on keychains, in their
>
> > wallets and purses, or in the armrests of their cars? That's a crude form
>
> > of management. What about clipping and carrying coupons, or spending hours
>
> > or days adding up "points" from credit cards to trade in for miles on
>
> > airlines? (I have a friend who is obsessed with doing that.) What about
>
> > going over stacks of receipts and trying to match them up with credit card
>
> > bills — arduously reviewing old calendars to see what we did and when, so
>
> > we can minimize our tax hit? Is there no management in that?
>
> >
>
> > Think of all the pain points any one of us deals with in relating to
>
> > vendors — or anybody. All those pain points are potential business
>
> > opportunities. Not all of them will be pursued, but none of them are worth
>
> > dismissing because nobody seems interested in dealing with them now. As
>
> > Henry Ford said, "If I'd asked people what they wanted, they'd have said
>
> > 'faster horses.'" To my Irish grandmother growing up in The Bronx, the
>
> > biggest problems were horse manure piling up in the streets and the danger
>
> > of fire from gas light. Neither problems were relieved by the industries 
> > of
>
> > the time. Yet both horse-drawn wagons and gas light were obsoleted by new
>
> > inventions.
>
> >
>
> > Fourth, everybody manages data today already. We do it with folders on our
>
> > hard drives, with bookmarks and tabs in our browsers, with boxes in our
>
> > mail programs, and with every online service that organizes files for us.
>
> > Are all these in such a complete and final state that they are
>
> > un-improvable? Or is there opportunity here for many kinds of new
>
> > approaches? Again, it's easy to say "nobody is interested." But it's not
>
> > wise to bet against relieving whatever causes people pain. Or what opens 
> > up
>
> > new opportunity where almost nobody is looking.
>
> >
>
> > Fifth, the people addressing all the stuff I talked about above (and more)
>
> > are not "a tiny group that has a bee in its bonnet about advertising's
>
> > abuse of customer data." There are hundreds of people on this list, and
>
> > thousands of people overall, who care about VRM and what we're trying to 
> > do
>
> > with it.
>
> >
>
> > And most of us don't care about advertising. (Though some do, and we
>
> > respect that.) Fixing advertising's problems, or pursuing its
>
> > opportunities, is almost entirely a vendor-side issue. My own attitude
>
> > toward advertising is kind of like Ford's toward horses and trains: those
>
> > things will keep doing what they're best for, and we'll go invent 
> > something
>
> > else. My guess is that, if VRM succeeds, it will help brand advertising 
> > and
>
> > hurt adtech or alter it for the better. But VRM's purpose has nothing to 
> > do
>
> > with any of that.
>
> >
>
> > Still, business senses that we are on to something here, so we can't help
>
> > talking about it, and, in some cases, getting invited to conclaves where
>
> > advertising is a big issue.
>
> >
>
> > For example, yesterday I attended one of those things here in New York.
>
> > The word "intention" was used a lot. The context was using "big data" to
>
> > "intuit" what customers "intend," without ever having to listen to what
>
> > those customers want to say, directly, to the "brands" doing the
>
> > advertising. So the talk was about "listening in" on "conversations" among
>
> > "consumers" in "social spaces" so those consumers could be "delivered" a
>
> > "better experience." It was the sound of one hand slapping, not two hands
>
> > clapping. A few voices  from within the business were raised, saying "Are
>
> > we listening to ourselves? Do we not realize that we're abusing people's
>
> > privacy, and that this will have consequences?" As usual those voices were
>
> > mostly not heard. But the wilderness from which those voices were raised 
> > is
>
> > called the marketplace.
>
> >
>
> > Are those voices pointing toward actual requirements, as you suggest?
>
> > Well, let's look at what the market is already doing.
>
> >
>
> > Today the most popular browser extensions are ones that block advertising
>
> > and turn off tracking. Governments (especially in Europe) want to switch
>
> > off tracking altogether, because their citizens are tired of it. These are
>
> > significant trends. Look up "privacy" on Google or Bing and see how many
>
> > results you get, and the order in which they are prioritized. Is there no
>
> > market for solutions here?
>
> >
>
> > Personally, I don't want legislative relief. Anti-adtech laws today will
>
> > protect yesterday from last Thursday with legal code that won't change for
>
> > decades, or perhaps ever. On the whole that's not good in a vital and
>
> > fast-changing marketplace. I'd rather come up with technic fixes that will
>
> > take care of business without new laws. (Though perhaps with legal
>
> > decisions based on standing laws. Those are likely to happen in any case.)
>
> >
>
> > Finally, just because a glass is 1/Nth full doesn't mean that it's X/Nths
>
> > empty, or can't be filled. Faith, St. Paul tells us, is "the evidence of
>
> > things unseen." Without it we wouldn't have civilizations, or markets.
>
> > There would be demand only for the hides of animals and sharpened rocks.
>
> >
>
> > VRM isn't complicated. It's only about giving customers means toward two
>
> > things: independence and engagement. To see how that can be done, one 
> > needs
>
> > to stand on the side of the customer. So that's what we're doing.
>
> >
>
> > Doc
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On Mar 15, 2013, at 3:42 AM, Graham Hill 
> > <
 >
> >  wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Nathan
>
> >
>
> > Personally, I much prefer Personal Identity Management =  PIDM over Vendor
>
> > Relationship Management = VRM. PIDM speaks to a real and present issue in
>
> > the mind of millions of potential users, namely, wresting back control of
>
> > their identity in a way that suits them. Of the hundreds of ordinary 
> > people
>
> > I speak to each week in my consulting work, many are concerned about their
>
> > losing their identities, the rise of aggressive data collectors like
>
> > Facebook, Google and Apple, and the little they get back from their data 
> > in
>
> > return. In fact, many of them have personal stories of bad things that
>
> > happened to their identity or to the identites of people they know.
>
> > Practically none of these people are interested in actively managing their
>
> > data as an interface to vendors as envisaged in VRM.
>
> >
>
> > As this forum has lamented many times in the past. VRM's value proposition
>
> > isn't valuable to ordinary folk out there. They are simply NOT INTERESTED
>
> > in managing relationships with vendors; with the odd, one-off exception 
> > for
>
> > big ticket items like switching power provider for a whole neighbourhood
>
> > (happened to a friend who happens to be Director of Marketing for a big
>
> > Scottish insurer). You can build VRM applications, but it is unlikely that
>
> > users will come to use them. VRM enables a job-to-be-done that no normal
>
> > person is interested in doing. PIDM on the other hand is a job that
>
> > everyone wants to do (with minimal effort of course).
>
> >
>
> > Perhaps it is time to switch the mental model from one powered by a tiny
>
> > group that has a bee in its bonnet about advertising's abuse of customer
>
> > data... to a much larger potential group that helps customers keep some
>
> > semblance of control over their own identity.
>
> >
>
> > The history of invention in general and startup invention in particular is
>
> > that approximately 90% of startups fail. The single biggest reason they
>
> > fail is because they didn't uderstand their target market's requirements 
> > in
>
> > the first place. Don't be one of the 90%.
>
> >
>
> > Best regards from Cologne, Graham
>
> >
>
> > Am 14.03.2013 um 17:07 schrieb Nathan Schor:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I totally agree about bringing her up to speed. Here is a comment from
>
> > her  report that  I use  as part of my pitch material:
>
> >
>
> > *“Expect aggressive acquisition attempts for the startups in this 
> > arena.**Emerging PIDM (Personal Identity Management) startups have 
> > already caught
>
> > venture capital attention — several have procured investments from major
>
> > venture capital firms, and almost all have venture capital luminaries on
>
> > their advisory boards. *
>
> >
>
> > *Add to this the wealth of opted-in data they’ll soon have collected from
>
> > savvy consumers, and**it’s impossible to ignore how attractive these
>
> > firms become for acquisition**.”*
>
> >
>
> > – *Personal Identity Management: Preparing for a World of
>
> > Consumer-Managed 
> > Data*<http://www.forrester.com/rb/Research/personal_identity_management/q/id/60322/t/2>
>
> >
>
> > Although her nomenclature –***PIDM (Personal Identity Management) –* may
>
> > cause confusion when compared to our VRM term, she is hugely influential
>
> > amongst funders, so it would be great to have her appear at IIW. In fact,
>
> > one of her colleagues attended the last session:
>
> >
>
> > *Eve Maler Principal Analyst Security Forrester 425.345.6756 617.613.8820*
>
> > *
 *
> >  
> > <
 >**
>
> >
>
> > If anyone has a relationship with Eve perhaps that could be a springboard
>
> > for inviting Fatimah.
>
> >
>
> > Nathan Schor
>
> >
>
> > 
 
>
> >
>
> > 305.632.1368
>
> >
>
> > Office Tower2™ – ‘Changing ecommerce – one office building at a time.’™
>
> >
>
> > NetMeals™ – ‘Order online or wait in line.’™
>
> >
>
> > CompenSumer™ – ‘A penny for your thoughts but real money for your
>
> > intentions.’™
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: Doc Searls 
> > [mailto:
 <
 >
>
> > ]
>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 8:07 AM
>
> > To: T-Rob
>
> > Cc: ProjectVRM list; 
> > 
 
>
> > Subject: [projectvrm] Re: [personal-clouds] Heads-up: Webinar today
>
> >
>
> > Good that you cross-posted it. I encourage people to attend it. Alas, I'll
>
> > be in a meeting all afternoon, and won't make it.
>
> >
>
> > Background: Fatemeh's blog:
>
> >
>
> > <http://blogs.forrester.com/fatemeh_khatibloo>
>
> >
>
> > We need to do a better job of keeping her current on what developers here
>
> > are up to.
>
> >
>
> > Doc
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On Mar 14, 2013, at 10:08 AM, T-Rob 
> > <
 >
> >  wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > Thought you all might be interested.  Deliberately cross-posting so if
>
> >
>
> > > you reply, please remove the other list from distribution.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > -------------------------
>
> >
>
> > > Webinar: Personal Data and Privacy - Is the consumer the boss?
>
> >
>
> > > Date: March 14, 2013  |  Time: 2 pm ET / 11 am PT  |  Duration: 1 hour
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Companies and consumers are becoming increasingly aware of the value
>
> >
>
> > > and risks associated with the collection, use, and dissemination of
>
> >
>
> > > personal data. On the one hand, our personal data is the fuel behind
>
> >
>
> > > our highly connected, increasingly digital lives. On the other hand,
>
> >
>
> > > using it inappropriately can lead to damaging consequences.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > This webinar will explore Forrester Analyst Fatemeh Khatibloo's
>
> >
>
> > > characterization of a new Personal Identity Management market as well
>
> >
>
> > > as solutions for participating in the Identity Economy.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Speakers:
>
> >
>
> > > Fatemeh Khatibloo, Senior Analyst, Forrester Nick Crown, Director of
>
> >
>
> > > Product Marketing, UnboundID
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > http://www.fiercecio.com/offer/identitymanagement?source=stack
>
> >
>
> > > -------------------------
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Not sure if this will be useful or just marketing for UnboundID,  I'd
>
> >
>
> > > love to attend just to see which it is and what Fatemah is saying
>
> >
>
> > > about digital identity, but have a conflict.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > -- T.Rob
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > ____________________________________________________________
>
> >
>
> > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>
> >
>
> > >     
> > > 
 
>
> >
>
> > > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>
> >
>
> > >     
> > > 
 
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > For all list information and functions, see:
>
> >
>
> > >     http://lists.pde.cc/lists/info/personal-clouds
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > Dr. Graham Hill
>
> > 
 
>
> > UK +44 7564 122 633
>
> > DE +49 170 487 6192
>
> > http://twitter.com/GrahamHill
>
> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/grahamhill
>
> >
>
> > Partner
>
> > Optima Partners
>
> > http://www.optimapartners.co.uk
>
> >
>
> > Senior Associate
>
> > Nyras Capital
>
> > http://www.nyras.co.uk
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > Joe Andrieu
>
> > SwitchBook
>
> > 
 
>
> > +1(805)705-8651
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > Dr. Graham Hill
>
> > 
 
>
> > UK +44 7564 122 633
>
> > DE +49 170 487 6192
>
> > http://twitter.com/GrahamHill
>
> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/grahamhill
>
> >
>
> > Partner
>
> > Optima Partners
>
> > http://www.optimapartners.co.uk
>
> >
>
> > Senior Associate
>
> > Nyras Capital
>
> > http://www.nyras.co.uk
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> John S. James
>
> www.aidsnews.org
>
> www.RepliCounts.org