vsSalesforce folks have to prove is that they aren't the mega-Anti-VRM.I don't think the interested parties at Salesforce (notably JP and Steve) are anti-VRMI think this is a better way to look at it, and frankly any burden of proof is on the VRM side. CRM is a real market, 3 billion and growing of real demand from Salesforce alone. VRM is more beautiful, a better idea, but still a theory, not a business. Until it appears to be a market to CRM makers they aren't going to take it very seriously.I believe the thread linking VRM to CRM is through the social channel.. Doc has a different take, but I don't think it is diametrically opposed. Social is something CRM folk understand (especially Salesforce), and are investing in.. and it is a trend VRM should leverage.Salesforce is selling this to all of it's customers:1. The power has moved to the customer, they own your brand and have the ability to impact your bottom line (sounds pretty VRMish?)2. You as a company need to listen to them on their own systems (FB, Blogs, Twitter... (customer owned system, say a Blog, almost == VRM)).3. You need to buy our CRM software, so you can actually hear them on social channels, and market to them, and make more money.The pitch we should making:"With VRM - your listening to customers on their own systems would be more structured than 140chars and have a higher ROI. It would make existing CRM systems and practices work better. But it needs investment in standards and support for VRM developers and startups. "But we need to make those tools, and we can't come to the meeting with blank slatesIn my experience, it's really hard.. you need investment in a speculative market , killer products, and network effect... and probably luck... because with VRM done right the customers are People, who mostly don't care and won't pay for VRM. Getting CRM companies (or CRM customers ie businesses) to subsidize efforts might be the only feasible way to get VRM working with CRM.Charles OppenheimerOn Feb 14, 2013, at 10:59 AM, Doc Searls wrote:Okay, let's do it. Dan, et. al., let's line up the space/time at your office to do this thing.I'd like this to be a deep-dive among people who are actually involved and can do something, and not just a mini-conference where positions are stated and ideas are vetted.I don't think the interested parties at Salesforce (notably JP and Steve) are anti-VRM at all. Nor are others on this list from SAP, Microsoft, IBM, SugarCRM and Oracle. (And yes, they are here.) To be fair and realistic toward those companies, they are answering their B2B markets' demand for more-better data gathering and customer and prospect tracking, big analytics and the rest of it. If we can make the VRM tools that match up with and improve CRM tools, that will be good for CRM. Simple as that. But we need to make those tools, and we can't come to the meeting with blank slates.DocOn Feb 14, 2013, at 11:31 AM, Dan Miller < " target="_blank"> > wrote:I think the first thing that Salesforce folks have to prove is that they aren't the mega-Anti-VRM. It's a matter of conduct, not intent and, for the most part Salesforce is building the mega-corporate cloud that basically occludes any opportunity for personal data to penetrate. Individuals may upload their stuff - send out their beacons, intent indicators and the like - voluntarily as part of their personal cloud(s). The role of CRM in general and Salesforce (as the mega cloud) is to appropriate it, starting innocently enough with a subscription service for companies to store and frequently refer to their "opportunity" lists and associated data.
I definitely want to be in the room when we talk through the CRM/VRM connection.
-DanOn Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 6:40 AM, Jeffrey Pedone < " target="_blank"> > wrote:
Really great to see VRM+CRM in print and actions being taken to meld the two. This sounds like a great plan, count me in.Jeffrey PedoneOn Feb 14, 2013, at 1:28 AM, Charles Oppenheimer < " target="_blank"> > wrote:That would be great...I'd love to attend if you get it going. Getting JP and Steve Gilmore talking VRM would be a nice start, I could see it developing into a conference. Salesforce has by far the highest odds of a CRM company being VRM friendly I believe. (Disclaimer: alumnus of SFDC)If there's a meeting of the minds getting queued up with JP, Steve and DocCharles OppenheimerOn Feb 13, 2013, at 9:56 PM, Dan Miller wrote:If there's a meeting of the minds getting queued up with JP, Steve and Doc, I volunteer our office/loft near South Park. Where CRM meets VRM could very well be in each of our wallets (electronic or otherwise). The Salesforce cloud is incredibly capacious. The menu of services is far beyond what 95% of its paying customers are able to assimilate. That's why the Twitter poll asks about prospecting by phone or email.
On Wednesday, February 13, 2013, Sean Bohan wrote:My phone is actually as if not more personal than my wallet. While we see daily (like the Google Play/Android news today) reports of companies not respecting our space (mobile phones) and the data inside, each little insult is adding up.You nailed it Doc.On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 11:39 PM, Drummond Reed < > wrote:--
Right on, Doc. Respect Network and our Founding Partners are working as fast as we can to give the independent customer the same tools as Salesforce. Looking forward to making Respect Network + Salesforce a shining example of VRM+CRM.=DrummondOn Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 8:16 PM, Doc Searls < > wrote:
At Customer Commons, "Wallets are personal": <http://customercommons.org/2013/02/12/wallets-are-personal/>At the ProjectVRM blog, "The right frame for relationship is personal, not social": <http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/vrm/2013/02/13/the-right-frame-for-relationship-is-personal-not-social/>There is a call for VRM+CRM action at the end of that one. Here's some more context :
------------------------------------------------
Sean W. Bohan------------------------------------------------
Mobile: 646-234-5693AngelList: http://angel.co/sean-bohanLinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/seanbohan
Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.19.