Hi Chris,
Comments inline,
On 14 Jan 2013, at 14:26, "Savage, Christopher" <
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> wrote: From: Mark Lizar [mailto:info@smartspecies.com]
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 8:44 AM
To: Savage, Christopher
Cc: John Harrison | PIB-d; 'ProjectVRM list'
Subject: Re: [projectvrm] RE: Battle of the Online Forms >>We have set up a work group called Open Notice which focuses on this particular problem which we presented at the recent W3C - Do Not Track and beyond conference. << >>The Open Notice effort was a call to participation last year for companies and organisations that are working in solving this problem now and we now have a sizable list of companies and academics that have joined and we are working to launch the website, provide a newsletter, and create a survey for ways in which we can collaborate to address these types of problems. << >>Open Notice specifically refers to the principle of openness and notice refers to TOSA, Privacy Policies and the like, which are required to be as open as possible so that standard approaches to policy transparency and negotiating terms can be developed. Calling for basic standards so that companies working to address these problems can work together to help develop this ecosystem. << I will read the paper. Note however that my proposal is a bit different than the standard Internet model of collaboration. Cynical lawyer that I am, I assess likely actions in terms of the players’ interests. Right now large commercial organizations, as a general matter, will not see allowing flexibility in terms of service, and certainly not substantive modifications to tilt rights towards individuals, as in their interest. Hence they will participate and stall (if they think that is good PR) or simply ignore, non-binding collaborative efforts to cut back on the rights/powers/etc. they now believe they enjoy under the current regime.
Well, this is definitely an issue that we think about a lot. Companies like TOS:DR and Privacy Choice crowd source transparency etc. but this just helps doesnt address this issue.
Newly Proposed EU laws and FTC actions and the like are the big stick that will drive change, although, the critical point to be focused on in my opinion is the consent transaction.
If these terms and policies were in a standard location, with a standard format, we could use them in an aggregated fashion to systematically find the terms we want to negotiate, or to automatically provide our own standard terms etc.
Customer Commons is working on these types of functionalities. Much to be said, more than I can at the moment.
Imagine the scene: XYZ Megacorp’s CMO is sitting down with their General Counsel. The question is, “Should we make our terms of service more friendly towards our customers?” The GC will say, “Why would you want to give up the rights that you now have in your TOS?” The CMO says, “People don’t like our current oppressive TOS.” “Are ours more oppressive than anyone else’s? Are we actually losing sales because of them?” “Well, no, but they do look bad.” “Well,” says the GC, “I’m not going to approve giving up rights that may be really valuable in case of some dispute or some screwed up situation for PR. If we have some situation where it looks bad to insist on something in our standard TOS, we can waive it and look like good guys. But why waive it in advance.” “I guess you’re right,” says the CMO, feeling slightly deflated… So I’m actually proposing some legal “guerilla warfare” – things that might be useful to move the ecosystem in the right direction, or at least start to, whether large enterprises are inclined to collaborate or not.
I like this direction, I have taken this approach for awhile, in some ways its effective in many its futile. I have for a while worked on a way to asses the legal compliance of terms of services and the like. The truth is that these are no longer fit for purpose and legal compliance is questionable at best. Many times a company and a customer are in different jurisdictions, as well, most often there are many TOS, EULA, Privacy Policies that are relevant for each online transaction. E.g.Browser, Computer OS, Org, Third Parties all have relevant terms and polices for each transaction.
More to come on this topic. (have to run )
Mark
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