Re: [projectvrm] All My Purchases App -- a Moo Moment.

[Doc Searls < >]

On May 29, 2011, at 7:12 AM, Mark Lizar wrote:

> 
> 
> Hi Iain, et.al
> 
> I have been talking about VRM as Open Loyalty as a way to describe how to 
> boot strap VRM theory and get the data flowing in reality.     In a 
> previous post I contributed Open Loyalty to the VRM the community with the 
> condition that it becomes a formal organisational effort.
> 
> The idea of organising VRM apps and efforts into core infrastructure, 
> services, governance, etc.   Creating a VRM federation with a trust 
> framework, operational guidelines, VRM service assessment criteria.  These 
> sort of (community) activities are needed to formalise an effort for Open 
> Loyalty to be contributed.
> 
>  Many CC'd here may want to consider forming a core infrastructure WG and 
> assessment criteria to vet participation.  Or something similar.  The 
> intention is to create a 'common' effort to drive data flow into VRM 
> infrastructure.  With a community designed to protect and increase this 
> data flow the next challenge I would imagine is how to be community 
> inclusive and to spread the effort. (e.g. include Europe, Asia-Pacific and 
> move to Internet Scale)
> 
> I would hope people on this list would have the answers that lead to the 
> implementation of this solution. (Think Zuckerberg strategy when expanding 
> Facebook.)  Bottom line with Open Loyalty the vision is a protected flow of 
> VRM data as a basis for VRM service infrastructure. e.g. the boot strap.
> 
> So what is open loyalty comprised of?
> 
> Roughly speaking think of open loyalty as reverse loyalty card.   Where an 
> individuals consent is the type of credit provided to the vendor by the 
> customer.
> 
> Its basically a card, (digital, verbal, or physical) that is presented at 
> any formal (or even informal) data/identity transaction.  For us, this card 
> is a vehicle for VRM data governance, contracts, data gathering 
> notifications, etc.    For the customer it is a tool, which I suggests 
> starts with paperless receipts, (accounting, warranties). For the Vendor, 
> its a way to develop a loyalty program driven from the customer in a way 
> that they can compete with the much bigger fish in their market.    For 
> suppliers its a an open door for the customer to interact.  For services 
> providers like Google it is a card  that goes in the wallet.

Is this not a selector? We have that tech laying around already. (Microsoft 
abandoned its efforts, but I think this is a good thing.) In fact, I believe 
a number of us are working on stuff that uses cards and a selector. AmI off 
base here?

> But this is just the tip of the iceburg.  All of this data represents the 
> initial scaleable flow of VRM data for the entire VRM community to build 
> upon.  This  is what is envisioned with this proposal and approach.
> 
> To this end:
> I know TAS3 is doing a lot of excellent work on the backend here as well.   
>  I imagine someone (like Kaliya) would need to mediate the competitive 
> tendencies of the business based participants.  The tough part is working 
> together, aligning visions (and business models) towards developing the 
> incredible flow of data that is needed to make VRM a reality.  In the end I 
> would rather have .00001 % of VRM and be able to develop self-hacking 
> services on an internet scale, than 100% of a siloed business trying to do 
> the same.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Mark

This is all fine. I also think we need to focus on what Iain asks for here. A 
single thing, that individuals can use, with high impact.

Doc

> On 29 May 2011, at 10:19, Iain Henderson wrote:
> 
>> Hi Mark,
>> 
>> I agree that the time has come when we could really turn VRM theory into 
>> reality. Enough of the 'back end' will be in place shortly. But you'll 
>> need to get a lot more specific about the nature of the apps/ services you 
>> envisage, and how you see the build/ deployment being resources.
>> 
>> I'd suggest you focus on something very contained with high impact. In 
>> that mode, do you have anything spec'd out?
>> 
>> Iain
>> 
>> On 28 May 2011, at 02:03, Mark Lizar 
>> <
 >
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> This is a real opportunity for VRM.  As a community we could support a 
>>> commons built on open loyalty. It's not just Tesco that is the 
>>> opportunity for one VRM Company.   In fact only one data store and one 
>>> Super market chain will not prove successful.  I have done the research!!
>>> 
>>> We have an opportunity writ large with Google and every  VRM service.
>>> 
>>> In this regard I encourage Open Loyalty to be looked upon as a point for 
>>> this community to focus expertise and energy. A point to boot strap VRM 
>>> and provide the Customer with power at the Point of any data transaction.
>>> 
>>> Only as a community can we create the tipping point and scale to make VRM 
>>> a market force.
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> 
>>> - Mark
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On 27 May 2011, at 22:33, Iain Henderson 
>>> <
 >
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Yes, there are quite a few that do so - just none as yet that send to a 
>>>> personal data service (because there aren't any of those available at 
>>>> sufficient scale as yet).
>>>> 
>>>> And yes, all of those supply side benefits emerge in the PDS-enabled 
>>>> mode (steps 5 to 11 in the Customer - Supplier Engagement 
>>>> Framework.....).
>>>> 
>>>> Iain
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 27 May 2011, at 22:29, Joe Andrieu wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> It's also worth noting that Wells Fargo now offers several forms of 
>>>>> ditial receipts for ATM transactions, including sending it to your 
>>>>> email of record.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think the real trick is to be able to streamline the secondary uses 
>>>>> of receipts for the authorizing vendor, e.g., returns, rebates, 
>>>>> warranties, recalls and various customer service issues. It's all fine 
>>>>> that a vendor pushes out data in a friendly format, but it will take 
>>>>> the game to a whole new level when they accept that data back into 
>>>>> their system as a proof of purchase.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -j
>>>>> Joe Andrieu
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
 
>>>>> 
>>>>> +1 (805) 705-8651
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 5/27/2011 2:24 PM, Iain Henderson wrote:
>>>>>> Sure, there are issues to be addressed, but none un-resolvable over 
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm a believer in going after the easy bits first, and using the 
>>>>>> momentum that generates to build out. For example, in UK a huge 
>>>>>> proportion of £'s spent on groceries is with one company (Tesco), who 
>>>>>> already digitise receipts for the vast majority of their customers (who
>