Re: [projectvrm] question. VRM-SCRM?

[Dean Landsman < >]

Silos thought the "Social" initiatives may be, as correctly called out by Doc (below), there may be some benefit in using these entities as stepping stones.

Various BIGCOs are attempting to jump aboard the "interactive social media" bandwagon.  Simplest entry and access is through the big name silos.  And, despite the failings (silos, complete ownership of data, right to resell data, etc.), it does, indeed, get some level of interactive conversation going.  Conversation as in back'n'forth, not simply talking "at."

If the first step for BIGCOs is getting involved in the interactive conversation, then so be it.  Yes, many will try to codify the data and cram it into existing systems.  But that will be less fruitful, and the concept of actually listening and dealing with input from users (customers,. buyers, consumers, targets, whatever) is somehow enhanced.

Then comes the actual VRM step of the individual having tools to communicate, and there being an exchange that is not walled, silo'd, or necessarily hurled back in to some preexisting system, which seeks to put the data into a predetermined set or grouping.

Dan Miller made an astute observation when he wrote:

 Right now only a small fraction CRM systems are adapting to multiple talk paths, like email, forums, "chat", IM and micro-blogging. The age old algorithms that made it possible to predict spikes in activity based on mass marketing campaigns are over. With them go the home grown formulae for imputing with great certainty nature of "the next call [or email, or tweet...]" and the intent of the caller. Companies (sometimes called "Brands") are feeling the heat to "do something with social media" and chances are the budget for carrying out those projects will come out of CRM, customer care or communications infrastructure budgets. If you follow the money, you understand why it is cast as SCRM, rather than VRM.

The money trail is critical.  Adaptation to a more VRM and less SCRM path of opportunity may be going through a certain evolution.  Perhaps that is too strong a statement; maybe it is better characterized as gestation period.  It is natural for legacy players to follow the same safe paths as have worked for them in the past.  Various iterations (including ones leading down any number of incorrect routes) will probably *have* to occur before the mutually beneficial exhanges can occur.  CRM practitioners will more likely perceive this as "gathering data' than as "listening."  But change is a slow road.

The Social Media Kool Kidz might take the position that Facebook, Twitter, 4Square, and such are already changing the interactive game, and that "their voices are being heard."  But this is more shouting amongst themselves than having realistic impact on the CRM world. Or, more to the point, than any impact on the mass marketing efforts of much of industry and commerce.

There are some forward thinking data gathering and CRM companies (and BigCO's of various stripes) waking up to the voice of the 

individual, and to the value in hearing, listening, interacting.  But this will mean budget changes, cultural changes.  As Dan notes, one must follow the money.  So this is as much a budget issue as anything else.

Let me also add that despite my somewhat disparaging remarks about Social Media and the Kool Kidz, there are all sorts of good uses for many of the extant Social Media sites.  From both the purely commercial vantage point, as well as that of participating in doing social good, success stories abound.  These help fuel the fire for the forward thinking, as well as those in the investigative or early test phase processes.

Jon is correct in pointing out that much of the "Social" input is best for commerce to use in evaluating a degree of sentiment analysis.  This is where he researchers and the KoolKidz part ways, in that development of correct sample bases and respondent input becomes the province of professionals, not of excited Social Media advocates and evangelists.

As sentiment analysis grows (an almost natural extension of analytics) and is blended into the commercial research equation, interesting changes will occur. Call center data PLUS data generated (of their own  volition)  by users will become ingredients in the new recipes for Consumer Research.

Some form(s) of SCRM may emerge that take into account VRM and CRM.  This is what makes the early ProjectVRM work so exciting.

--Dean

On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Doc Searls < "> > wrote:

I wonder if there's a better chance of getting an overlap of the VRM and CRM circles (by which I mean real engagement between VRM and CRM processes) *without* SCRM than with it?

I say that because all of the stuff we call "social" (Facebook, Twitter, Blippy, Foursquare, yada yada) are private commercial walled gardens, rather than our own servers, services or data buckets. Thus it seems to me these "socia" things are a bug, not a feature.

Doc

At 8:00 AM -0500 7/14/10, Jon Lebkowsky wrote:

Right, and more about assessing things like "sentiment" than relationship.

~ Jon

On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 3:58 AM, Alan Patrick < " target="_blank"> > wrote:

Yup - SCRM = CRM + SocNet datamining

On 14/07/2010 09:52, Adriana Lukas wrote:

Seems to me SCRM has as much 'relationship' involved as CRM does, just
looking for more data in the social media/web. That's what it boils
down to.

Adriana

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