Internet and Democracy: The Sequel - Revision history

Harvard212: /* Class Discussion */

2012-05-08T19:31:34Z

Class Discussion

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	@Fabiancelisj: It is quite understandable that China is accustomed to Chinese websites. There is the obvious reason of a language barrier for one thing. Although, personally I prefer Facebook over Chinese websites. To each their own, though. I do think that engaging China in free-trade with the rest of the world is one way in which China can begin to be more free and open. So it is a slow and eventual process. And it a good thing. So long as the lines of communication remain open, then social norms may be able to be shifted. And this is all part of the evolving cultural landscape of the Internet. As far as I know there is a way for Chinese to use Facebook, and other American websites. So, hopefully as more people use them then these societies can be opened up in productive ways that perhaps repressive governments could not. [[User:Just Johnny\|Just Johnny]] 21:00, 28 April 2012 (EDT)		@Fabiancelisj: It is quite understandable that China is accustomed to Chinese websites. There is the obvious reason of a language barrier for one thing. Although, personally I prefer Facebook over Chinese websites. To each their own, though. I do think that engaging China in free-trade with the rest of the world is one way in which China can begin to be more free and open. So it is a slow and eventual process. And it a good thing. So long as the lines of communication remain open, then social norms may be able to be shifted. And this is all part of the evolving cultural landscape of the Internet. As far as I know there is a way for Chinese to use Facebook, and other American websites. So, hopefully as more people use them then these societies can be opened up in productive ways that perhaps repressive governments could not. [[User:Just Johnny\|Just Johnny]] 21:00, 28 April 2012 (EDT)

			@Fabiancelisj: This is a very interesting idea you present here: "The three reasons exposed there (aggressive blockage, high quality of Chinese websites and linguistic reasons, and pride and desire to use local products) make sense to me, and I really like the comparison between China and Russia about their ASNs and IP addresses, because it shows the level of control that each country has. Although compared to Russia it seems that China has a vast major control over the Internet, Russia has other types of exerting control, including the offline one, which is the particular Russia’s type of control." I remember the (previous) in-class discussion and the breadth of the class spreading quite vast in terms of perception and desires of privacy. What you state here, in effect, touches on the same individual sense of privacy on a macro-socio/political plane. In particular, it is interesting to note that Chinese pride of using home-grown products (often perceived as "fakes") by foreigners. Some things are complete knock-offs though! I am still learning about the balance of transparency and opacity. [[User: Harvard212\|Harvard212]] 15:31, 8 May 2012 EST

	It is interesting this week to learn about the different technologies and measures the government takes to control the internet and the circumvention tools people take to by-pass filtering and blockage. Internet control is manageable in certain countries such as China and Russia due to the effectiveness of DDoS attacks and personal attacks that leave people fear retribution for speaking up against the government, and due to the challenges of circumvention tools, such as lack of access and language barrier.		It is interesting this week to learn about the different technologies and measures the government takes to control the internet and the circumvention tools people take to by-pass filtering and blockage. Internet control is manageable in certain countries such as China and Russia due to the effectiveness of DDoS attacks and personal attacks that leave people fear retribution for speaking up against the government, and due to the challenges of circumvention tools, such as lack of access and language barrier.

Just Johnny: /* Class Discussion */

2012-04-29T03:38:58Z

Class Discussion

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	In response to Corporate Ethic on a Filtered Internet, I feel that this whole subject raises even deeper questions, which are only mirrored in the internet conflict. Some nation states are more peaceful than others. Some are more aggressive. Some feel they should intervene in other nations’ affairs. Some feel they shouldn’t. Governments don’t seem to always be looking out for the best interests of their people, but rather just seek to keep a certain group of people in power. Some corporations are coming to hold more real power and influence than traditional nation states and their governments. Through it all, many people are still oppressed, abused, neglected, or manipulated. What we see in a struggle for internet control reflects these broader struggles. Can overarching laws in the true interests of human beings, in general, be constructed and enforced? What international bodies, if any, could be appropriate to outline such laws and enforce them? It would seem we need more internationally agreed upon codes of conduct, in general, but it seems beyond human grasp. If there were an overarching international organism to regulate things like internet, might we just be making a new “Frankenstein” with yet more power, potentially useful for the wrong purposes? These are farther reaching questions, but ones that I see coming up, as we proceed down this road of internet ethics.[[User:Mike\|Mike]] 05:45, 12 April 2012 (UTC)		In response to Corporate Ethic on a Filtered Internet, I feel that this whole subject raises even deeper questions, which are only mirrored in the internet conflict. Some nation states are more peaceful than others. Some are more aggressive. Some feel they should intervene in other nations’ affairs. Some feel they shouldn’t. Governments don’t seem to always be looking out for the best interests of their people, but rather just seek to keep a certain group of people in power. Some corporations are coming to hold more real power and influence than traditional nation states and their governments. Through it all, many people are still oppressed, abused, neglected, or manipulated. What we see in a struggle for internet control reflects these broader struggles. Can overarching laws in the true interests of human beings, in general, be constructed and enforced? What international bodies, if any, could be appropriate to outline such laws and enforce them? It would seem we need more internationally agreed upon codes of conduct, in general, but it seems beyond human grasp. If there were an overarching international organism to regulate things like internet, might we just be making a new “Frankenstein” with yet more power, potentially useful for the wrong purposes? These are farther reaching questions, but ones that I see coming up, as we proceed down this road of internet ethics.[[User:Mike\|Mike]] 05:45, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

			@Mike: Yes, it's true. Everybody wants to rule the world. [[User:Just Johnny\|Just Johnny]] 23:38, 28 April 2012 (EDT)

	== Links ==		== Links ==

Just Johnny: /* Class Discussion */

2012-04-29T03:36:12Z

Class Discussion

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	I am also alarmed at how willingly (according to the OpenNet article) companies like Google and Skype give information to repressive authorities. I wonder what could be done about this. It's a very complicated situation and I don't know enough about it to make a legitimate judgment. [[User:Aberg\|Aberg]] 19:48, 10 April 2012 (UTC)		I am also alarmed at how willingly (according to the OpenNet article) companies like Google and Skype give information to repressive authorities. I wonder what could be done about this. It's a very complicated situation and I don't know enough about it to make a legitimate judgment. [[User:Aberg\|Aberg]] 19:48, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

			@Aberg: Interesting point about the tunneling. I'm sure there's a way for freedom to ring, even in China. So it's good to know that users have that option. I'm sure much of the media is streamlined everywhere else in China, though. So it is a very complicated situation when companies such as Google are providing information to repressive governments. And somewhat dangerous. [[User:Just Johnny\|Just Johnny]] 23:36, 28 April 2012 (EDT)

	@Aberg I was also in China not long ago and noticed the difference in Internet speed and what sites you were able to access depending on what location you were logging in from. After the readings for this week I will be more aware of what information I access or post during international travel. --[[User:Hds5\|Hds5]] 21:06, 10 April 2012 (UTC)		@Aberg I was also in China not long ago and noticed the difference in Internet speed and what sites you were able to access depending on what location you were logging in from. After the readings for this week I will be more aware of what information I access or post during international travel. --[[User:Hds5\|Hds5]] 21:06, 10 April 2012 (UTC)


	In response to Corporate Ethic on a Filtered Internet, I feel that this whole subject raises even deeper questions, which are only mirrored in the internet conflict. Some nation states are more peaceful than others. Some are more aggressive. Some feel they should intervene in other nations’ affairs. Some feel they shouldn’t. Governments don’t seem to always be looking out for the best interests of their people, but rather just seek to keep a certain group of people in power. Some corporations are coming to hold more real power and influence than traditional nation states and their governments. Through it all, many people are still oppressed, abused, neglected, or manipulated. What we see in a struggle for internet control reflects these broader struggles. Can overarching laws in the true interests of human beings, in general, be constructed and enforced? What international bodies, if any, could be appropriate to outline such laws and enforce them? It would seem we need more internationally agreed upon codes of conduct, in general, but it seems beyond human grasp. If there were an overarching international organism to regulate things like internet, might we just be making a new “Frankenstein” with yet more power, potentially useful for the wrong purposes? These are farther reaching questions, but ones that I see coming up, as we proceed down this road of internet ethics.[[User:Mike\|Mike]] 05:45, 12 April 2012 (UTC)		In response to Corporate Ethic on a Filtered Internet, I feel that this whole subject raises even deeper questions, which are only mirrored in the internet conflict. Some nation states are more peaceful than others. Some are more aggressive. Some feel they should intervene in other nations’ affairs. Some feel they shouldn’t. Governments don’t seem to always be looking out for the best interests of their people, but rather just seek to keep a certain group of people in power. Some corporations are coming to hold more real power and influence than traditional nation states and their governments. Through it all, many people are still oppressed, abused, neglected, or manipulated. What we see in a struggle for internet control reflects these broader struggles. Can overarching laws in the true interests of human beings, in general, be constructed and enforced? What international bodies, if any, could be appropriate to outline such laws and enforce them? It would seem we need more internationally agreed upon codes of conduct, in general, but it seems beyond human grasp. If there were an overarching international organism to regulate things like internet, might we just be making a new “Frankenstein” with yet more power, potentially useful for the wrong purposes? These are farther reaching questions, but ones that I see coming up, as we proceed down this road of internet ethics.[[User:Mike\|Mike]] 05:45, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

	== Links ==		== Links ==

Just Johnny: /* Class Discussion */

2012-04-29T03:31:02Z

Class Discussion

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:31, 29 April 2012
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	Great readings this week especially the latest with the Viacom/YT ruling. Thought this was pretty relevant for this week's discussion. Also received a petition notice about it in my inbox: [[http://truthfrequencynews.com/mpaa-chairman-chris-dodd-wants-to-resurrect-sopa-confirms-secret-negotiations/ Dodd Wants To Resurrect SOPA]][[User:JennLopez\|JennLopez]] 22:28, 10 April 2012 (UTC)		Great readings this week especially the latest with the Viacom/YT ruling. Thought this was pretty relevant for this week's discussion. Also received a petition notice about it in my inbox: [[http://truthfrequencynews.com/mpaa-chairman-chris-dodd-wants-to-resurrect-sopa-confirms-secret-negotiations/ Dodd Wants To Resurrect SOPA]][[User:JennLopez\|JennLopez]] 22:28, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

			@JennLopez: Interesting article. I think that governments and corporations ideally try to cooperate. Although, I still am not sure whether or not petitions actually make a difference – or, if they are like voting? Anyways, always good to keep people engaged in the idea of the process – like starting a piggy bank for kids. [[User:Just Johnny\|Just Johnny]] 23:31, 28 April 2012 (EDT)


	Until this week's readings, I didn't realize how much the "playing field" had changed in the area of online censorship and circumvention. When I visited China for a month in late 2010, I primarily stayed in Yunnan province (generally in the NW). One of the hostels I stayed at was run by a westerner who "tunneled" in super fast internet from Hong Kong (that's what he told us, anyways). I could easily and quickly access various social media sites and the web content appeared unfiltered. Most other internet connections I used while in China were SO slow, I guess because of all the filtering/censoring. Typically, I couldn't access Facebook or Blogger unless I used one of these "tunneled" connections, although I could use the Facebook app on my iPhone! While in Cairo a couple weeks prior to the protests in Tahrir square, I had no trouble accessing Blogger or Facebook. This has probably changed in light of Arab Spring, though. I imagine that a comparison of authoritarian countries would produce varied differences in cyber control, presumably having to do with how some of these countries' cyber censorship fluctuates depending on events at home. I'm sure China will implement even more austere measures this fall in anticipation of protests during the CCP's once in a decade regime change.		Until this week's readings, I didn't realize how much the "playing field" had changed in the area of online censorship and circumvention. When I visited China for a month in late 2010, I primarily stayed in Yunnan province (generally in the NW). One of the hostels I stayed at was run by a westerner who "tunneled" in super fast internet from Hong Kong (that's what he told us, anyways). I could easily and quickly access various social media sites and the web content appeared unfiltered. Most other internet connections I used while in China were SO slow, I guess because of all the filtering/censoring. Typically, I couldn't access Facebook or Blogger unless I used one of these "tunneled" connections, although I could use the Facebook app on my iPhone! While in Cairo a couple weeks prior to the protests in Tahrir square, I had no trouble accessing Blogger or Facebook. This has probably changed in light of Arab Spring, though. I imagine that a comparison of authoritarian countries would produce varied differences in cyber control, presumably having to do with how some of these countries' cyber censorship fluctuates depending on events at home. I'm sure China will implement even more austere measures this fall in anticipation of protests during the CCP's once in a decade regime change.

Just Johnny: /* Class Discussion */

2012-04-29T03:26:44Z

Class Discussion

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	Fascinating stuff in all of the articles and blog site. Very interesting how China uses 4 chokepoints to filter 240m IP addresses versus Russia's use of 19 for 30 million. Makes sense to see the more authoritarian country the less that seems to be required. In Russia which is seen as democratic there appears to be more effort required to censor/filter the public (youth groups, hacking). Regarding workaround tools, I would simply be afraid to even USE one in a country like China out of fear of being detected and violating law. With Iran looking to completely cut itself from the world come August, will be interesting to see what the reaction is from the public.		Fascinating stuff in all of the articles and blog site. Very interesting how China uses 4 chokepoints to filter 240m IP addresses versus Russia's use of 19 for 30 million. Makes sense to see the more authoritarian country the less that seems to be required. In Russia which is seen as democratic there appears to be more effort required to censor/filter the public (youth groups, hacking). Regarding workaround tools, I would simply be afraid to even USE one in a country like China out of fear of being detected and violating law. With Iran looking to completely cut itself from the world come August, will be interesting to see what the reaction is from the public.
	Regarding companies doing international business, I see the other half of the coin (even though disturbing). I can understand how a company like Google censors information for the people of China because it's services are just an extension of offline information that was regulated in the same way. The troublesome part is handing over data which leads to arrests and other "human rights violations" as we Americans see it (per the article). I think there needs to be responsibility by the party using the service and knowing when trying to circumvent the service or use it for locally known laws that there can be some persecution. Ethics go both ways when following the law. I'd like to know how countries like Egypt/Syria/Iran compare to China in terms of authoritarianism/"human rights" violations against it's people. Looking forward to discussion and any input on this board. [[User:Brendanlong\|Brendanlong]] 18:03, 10 April 2012 (UTC)		Regarding companies doing international business, I see the other half of the coin (even though disturbing). I can understand how a company like Google censors information for the people of China because it's services are just an extension of offline information that was regulated in the same way. The troublesome part is handing over data which leads to arrests and other "human rights violations" as we Americans see it (per the article). I think there needs to be responsibility by the party using the service and knowing when trying to circumvent the service or use it for locally known laws that there can be some persecution. Ethics go both ways when following the law. I'd like to know how countries like Egypt/Syria/Iran compare to China in terms of authoritarianism/"human rights" violations against it's people. Looking forward to discussion and any input on this board. [[User:Brendanlong\|Brendanlong]] 18:03, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

			@Brendanlong: I really think it comes down to pull. Many of these countries, such as Egypt/Syria/Iran simply do not have the resources to compete with superpowers such as the United States, or emerging superpowers such as China, or Russia. So, essentially, I think what it comes down to is whether or not these nations have the pull to compete. What I think is interesting is how take downs are really going to work as laws adapt across the globe. There is a lot of tug and pull from China, or Russia, for example. So even if we have people in Egypt using Twitter, we are still going to have to deal with the authorities clamping down on people for posting a Tweet. [[User:Just Johnny\|Just Johnny]] 23:26, 28 April 2012 (EDT)


	Great readings this week especially the latest with the Viacom/YT ruling. Thought this was pretty relevant for this week's discussion. Also received a petition notice about it in my inbox: [[http://truthfrequencynews.com/mpaa-chairman-chris-dodd-wants-to-resurrect-sopa-confirms-secret-negotiations/ Dodd Wants To Resurrect SOPA]][[User:JennLopez\|JennLopez]] 22:28, 10 April 2012 (UTC)		Great readings this week especially the latest with the Viacom/YT ruling. Thought this was pretty relevant for this week's discussion. Also received a petition notice about it in my inbox: [[http://truthfrequencynews.com/mpaa-chairman-chris-dodd-wants-to-resurrect-sopa-confirms-secret-negotiations/ Dodd Wants To Resurrect SOPA]][[User:JennLopez\|JennLopez]] 22:28, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Just Johnny: /* Class Discussion */

2012-04-29T03:18:10Z

Class Discussion

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:18, 29 April 2012
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	While threats and intimidation may fall into the category of bullying, such broad language raises concerns on how law enforcement can, in fact, outwardly censor the internet at their own discretion. I don’t think you have to be a civil libertarian to find the ambiguity of this bill to be troubling.--[[User:Jimmyh\|Jimmyh]] 16:34, 10 April 2012 (UTC)		While threats and intimidation may fall into the category of bullying, such broad language raises concerns on how law enforcement can, in fact, outwardly censor the internet at their own discretion. I don’t think you have to be a civil libertarian to find the ambiguity of this bill to be troubling.--[[User:Jimmyh\|Jimmyh]] 16:34, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

	@Jimmyh: You know, I respect freedom of expression. Zittrain really nails this aspect of corporate responsibility, as this is becoming more of a central component with respect to the Internet. Of course, when it comes to the Internet, we are beginning to see that corporations – and not really governments – are controlling consumers in a much broader and farther reaching scope than before. So it is corporations that can transmit messages to consumers, by way of the media as well as through other means, sidestepping governments, to intimidate or control citizens to adhere to a social order. So ethics plays a very large component in this, because the combination of a multitude of messages could constitute a violation of the law, as outlined in the quote above. For example: “It is unlawful for any person, with intent to terrify, intimidate, threaten, harass, annoy or offend, to use any electronic or digital device and use any obscene, lewd or profane language or suggest any lewd or lascivious act, or threaten to inflict physical harm to the person or property of any person.” Now, if I am bombarded by a company through television, Internet adverts, email, phone calls, radio, and so on and so forth to do something, it could be grounds for damage claims. [[User:Just Johnny\|Just Johnny]] 23:16, 28 April 2012 (EDT)		@Jimmyh: You know, I respect freedom of expression. Zittrain really nails this aspect of corporate responsibility, as this is becoming more of a central component with respect to the Internet. Of course, when it comes to the Internet, we are beginning to see that corporations – and not really governments – are controlling consumers in a much broader and farther reaching scope than before. So it is corporations that can transmit messages to consumers, by way of the media as well as through other means, sidestepping governments, to intimidate or control citizens to adhere to a social order. So ethics plays a very large component in this, because the combination of a multitude of messages could constitute a violation of the law, as outlined in the quote above. For example: “It is unlawful for any person, with intent to terrify, intimidate, threaten, harass, annoy or offend, to use any electronic or digital device and use any obscene, lewd or profane language or suggest any lewd or lascivious act, or threaten to inflict physical harm to the person or property of any person.” Now, if I am bombarded by a company through television, Internet adverts, email, phone calls, radio, and so on and so forth to do something, it could be grounds for harassment and damage claims. [[User:Just Johnny\|Just Johnny]] 23:16, 28 April 2012 (EDT)

Just Johnny: /* Class Discussion */

2012-04-29T03:16:34Z

Class Discussion

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:16, 29 April 2012
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	While threats and intimidation may fall into the category of bullying, such broad language raises concerns on how law enforcement can, in fact, outwardly censor the internet at their own discretion. I don’t think you have to be a civil libertarian to find the ambiguity of this bill to be troubling.--[[User:Jimmyh\|Jimmyh]] 16:34, 10 April 2012 (UTC)		While threats and intimidation may fall into the category of bullying, such broad language raises concerns on how law enforcement can, in fact, outwardly censor the internet at their own discretion. I don’t think you have to be a civil libertarian to find the ambiguity of this bill to be troubling.--[[User:Jimmyh\|Jimmyh]] 16:34, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

			@Jimmyh: You know, I respect freedom of expression. Zittrain really nails this aspect of corporate responsibility, as this is becoming more of a central component with respect to the Internet. Of course, when it comes to the Internet, we are beginning to see that corporations – and not really governments – are controlling consumers in a much broader and farther reaching scope than before. So it is corporations that can transmit messages to consumers, by way of the media as well as through other means, sidestepping governments, to intimidate or control citizens to adhere to a social order. So ethics plays a very large component in this, because the combination of a multitude of messages could constitute a violation of the law, as outlined in the quote above. For example: “It is unlawful for any person, with intent to terrify, intimidate, threaten, harass, annoy or offend, to use any electronic or digital device and use any obscene, lewd or profane language or suggest any lewd or lascivious act, or threaten to inflict physical harm to the person or property of any person.” Now, if I am bombarded by a company through television, Internet adverts, email, phone calls, radio, and so on and so forth to do something, it could be grounds for damage claims. [[User:Just Johnny\|Just Johnny]] 23:16, 28 April 2012 (EDT)


	Fascinating stuff in all of the articles and blog site. Very interesting how China uses 4 chokepoints to filter 240m IP addresses versus Russia's use of 19 for 30 million. Makes sense to see the more authoritarian country the less that seems to be required. In Russia which is seen as democratic there appears to be more effort required to censor/filter the public (youth groups, hacking). Regarding workaround tools, I would simply be afraid to even USE one in a country like China out of fear of being detected and violating law. With Iran looking to completely cut itself from the world come August, will be interesting to see what the reaction is from the public.		Fascinating stuff in all of the articles and blog site. Very interesting how China uses 4 chokepoints to filter 240m IP addresses versus Russia's use of 19 for 30 million. Makes sense to see the more authoritarian country the less that seems to be required. In Russia which is seen as democratic there appears to be more effort required to censor/filter the public (youth groups, hacking). Regarding workaround tools, I would simply be afraid to even USE one in a country like China out of fear of being detected and violating law. With Iran looking to completely cut itself from the world come August, will be interesting to see what the reaction is from the public.

Just Johnny: /* Class Discussion */

2012-04-29T03:01:47Z

Class Discussion

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:01, 29 April 2012
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	There are always arguments to be made for profit above all else, and what if trying too hard to be moral lowers your profits to where an 100% immoral (in relation to these internet issues) company corners the market? Then your idealism ruined you AND actively hurt online rights, since you left the door open for someone far worse than yourself to control that chunk of the web. [[User:AlexLE\|AlexLE]] 17:03, 9 April 2012 (UTC)		There are always arguments to be made for profit above all else, and what if trying too hard to be moral lowers your profits to where an 100% immoral (in relation to these internet issues) company corners the market? Then your idealism ruined you AND actively hurt online rights, since you left the door open for someone far worse than yourself to control that chunk of the web. [[User:AlexLE\|AlexLE]] 17:03, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

	@AlexLE: You know, it never seems to amaze me how ignorant people can be of other cultures. There is a lot going on out there in the world. What becomes difficult about globalization is agreeing on and then enforcing a one world government. Should the FBI be able to take down any .com domain? While the United States does have a lot of influence and control over the Internet, there is a bit of a power struggle going on between other countries and regions. Russia, China, and Europe, for example. China's circumvention tools are particular to the government and laws in China. Although, I do not think many American's would be in agreement with China enforcing a take down of, say, Facebook from within the United States. But, that is exactly what the FBI is doing with websites that are based out of the country using .com domains. Take, for instance, ~~bodog.com [~~http://www.bodog.com] which is a Canadian poker website. See: http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6348/196/ ~~[http://www.michaelgeist~~.~~ca/content/view/6348/196/]~~ The FBI took down bodog.com – so, the company was forced to move to a .ca domain. So, perhaps this trend will continue as websites are forced to become more local to their region. That way local governments can enforce laws as applicable to that particular website and domain. Then all we've got to really worry about is corruption of governments. [[User:Just Johnny\|Just Johnny]] 14:33, 28 April 2012 (EDT)		@AlexLE: You know, it never seems to amaze me how ignorant people can be of other cultures. There is a lot going on out there in the world. What becomes difficult about globalization is agreeing on and then enforcing a one world government. Should the FBI be able to take down any .com domain? While the United States does have a lot of influence and control over the Internet, there is a bit of a power struggle going on between other countries and regions. Russia, China, and Europe, for example. China's circumvention tools are particular to the government and laws in China. Although, I do not think many American's would be in agreement with China enforcing a take down of, say, Facebook from within the United States. But, that is exactly what the FBI is doing with websites that are based out of the country using .com domains. Take, for instance, http://www.bodog.com which is a Canadian poker website. See: http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6348/196/. The FBI took down bodog.com – so, the company was forced to move to a .ca domain. So, perhaps this trend will continue as websites are forced to become more local to their region. That way local governments can enforce laws as applicable to that particular website and domain. Then all we've got to really worry about is corruption of governments. [[User:Just Johnny\|Just Johnny]] 14:33, 28 April 2012 (EDT)

Just Johnny: /* Class Discussion */

2012-04-29T03:00:45Z

Class Discussion

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:00, 29 April 2012
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	There are always arguments to be made for profit above all else, and what if trying too hard to be moral lowers your profits to where an 100% immoral (in relation to these internet issues) company corners the market? Then your idealism ruined you AND actively hurt online rights, since you left the door open for someone far worse than yourself to control that chunk of the web. [[User:AlexLE\|AlexLE]] 17:03, 9 April 2012 (UTC)		There are always arguments to be made for profit above all else, and what if trying too hard to be moral lowers your profits to where an 100% immoral (in relation to these internet issues) company corners the market? Then your idealism ruined you AND actively hurt online rights, since you left the door open for someone far worse than yourself to control that chunk of the web. [[User:AlexLE\|AlexLE]] 17:03, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

	@AlexLE: You know, it never seems to amaze me how ignorant people can be of other cultures. There is a lot going on out there in the world. What becomes difficult about globalization is agreeing on and then enforcing a one world government. Should the FBI be able to take down any .com domain? While the United States does have a lot of influence and control over the Internet, there is a bit of a power struggle going on between other countries and regions. Russia, China, and Europe, for example. China's circumvention tools are particular to the government and laws in China. Although, I do not think many American's would be in agreement with China enforcing a take down of, say, Facebook from within the United States. But, that is exactly what the FBI is doing with websites that are based out of the country using .com domains. Take, for instance, bodog.com [bodog.com] which is a Canadian poker website. See: [http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6348/196/] The FBI took down bodog.com – so, the company was forced to move to a .ca domain. So, perhaps this trend will continue as websites are forced to become more local to their region. That way local governments can enforce laws as applicable to that particular website and domain. Then all we've got to really worry about is corruption of governments. [[User:Just Johnny\|Just Johnny]] 14:33, 28 April 2012 (EDT)		@AlexLE: You know, it never seems to amaze me how ignorant people can be of other cultures. There is a lot going on out there in the world. What becomes difficult about globalization is agreeing on and then enforcing a one world government. Should the FBI be able to take down any .com domain? While the United States does have a lot of influence and control over the Internet, there is a bit of a power struggle going on between other countries and regions. Russia, China, and Europe, for example. China's circumvention tools are particular to the government and laws in China. Although, I do not think many American's would be in agreement with China enforcing a take down of, say, Facebook from within the United States. But, that is exactly what the FBI is doing with websites that are based out of the country using .com domains. Take, for instance, bodog.com [http://www.bodog.com] which is a Canadian poker website. See: http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6348/196/ [http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6348/196/] The FBI took down bodog.com – so, the company was forced to move to a .ca domain. So, perhaps this trend will continue as websites are forced to become more local to their region. That way local governments can enforce laws as applicable to that particular website and domain. Then all we've got to really worry about is corruption of governments. [[User:Just Johnny\|Just Johnny]] 14:33, 28 April 2012 (EDT)

Just Johnny: /* Class Discussion */

2012-04-29T02:59:34Z

Class Discussion

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:59, 29 April 2012
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	There are always arguments to be made for profit above all else, and what if trying too hard to be moral lowers your profits to where an 100% immoral (in relation to these internet issues) company corners the market? Then your idealism ruined you AND actively hurt online rights, since you left the door open for someone far worse than yourself to control that chunk of the web. [[User:AlexLE\|AlexLE]] 17:03, 9 April 2012 (UTC)		There are always arguments to be made for profit above all else, and what if trying too hard to be moral lowers your profits to where an 100% immoral (in relation to these internet issues) company corners the market? Then your idealism ruined you AND actively hurt online rights, since you left the door open for someone far worse than yourself to control that chunk of the web. [[User:AlexLE\|AlexLE]] 17:03, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

	@AlexLE: You know, it never seems to amaze me how ignorant people can be of other cultures. There is a lot going on out there in the world. What becomes difficult about globalization is agreeing on and then enforcing a one world government. Should the FBI be able to take down any .com domain? While the United States does have a lot of influence and control over the Internet, there is a bit of a power struggle going on between other countries and regions. Russia, China, and Europe, for example. China's circumvention tools are particular to the government and laws in China. Although, I do not think many American's would be in agreement with China enforcing a take down of, say, Facebook from within the United States. But, that is exactly what the FBI is doing with websites that are based out of the country using .com domains. Take, for instance, bodog.com which is a Canadian poker website. See: [http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6348/196/] The FBI took down bodog.com – so, the company was forced to move to a .ca domain. So, perhaps this trend will continue as websites are forced to become more local to their region. That way local governments can enforce laws as applicable to that particular website and domain. Then all we've got to really worry about is corruption of governments. [[User:Just Johnny\|Just Johnny]] 14:33, 28 April 2012 (EDT)		@AlexLE: You know, it never seems to amaze me how ignorant people can be of other cultures. There is a lot going on out there in the world. What becomes difficult about globalization is agreeing on and then enforcing a one world government. Should the FBI be able to take down any .com domain? While the United States does have a lot of influence and control over the Internet, there is a bit of a power struggle going on between other countries and regions. Russia, China, and Europe, for example. China's circumvention tools are particular to the government and laws in China. Although, I do not think many American's would be in agreement with China enforcing a take down of, say, Facebook from within the United States. But, that is exactly what the FBI is doing with websites that are based out of the country using .com domains. Take, for instance, bodog.com [bodog.com] which is a Canadian poker website. See: [http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6348/196/] The FBI took down bodog.com – so, the company was forced to move to a .ca domain. So, perhaps this trend will continue as websites are forced to become more local to their region. That way local governments can enforce laws as applicable to that particular website and domain. Then all we've got to really worry about is corruption of governments. [[User:Just Johnny\|Just Johnny]] 14:33, 28 April 2012 (EDT)

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	I am also alarmed at how willingly (according to the OpenNet article) companies like Google and Skype give information to repressive authorities. I wonder what could be done about this. It's a very complicated situation and I don't know enough about it to make a legitimate judgment. [[User:Aberg\|Aberg]] 19:48, 10 April 2012 (UTC)		I am also alarmed at how willingly (according to the OpenNet article) companies like Google and Skype give information to repressive authorities. I wonder what could be done about this. It's a very complicated situation and I don't know enough about it to make a legitimate judgment. [[User:Aberg\|Aberg]] 19:48, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

			@Aberg: Interesting point about the tunneling. I'm sure there's a way for freedom to ring, even in China. So it's good to know that users have that option. I'm sure much of the media is streamlined everywhere else in China, though. So it is a very complicated situation when companies such as Google are providing information to repressive governments. And somewhat dangerous. [[User:Just Johnny\|Just Johnny]] 23:36, 28 April 2012 (EDT)

	@Aberg I was also in China not long ago and noticed the difference in Internet speed and what sites you were able to access depending on what location you were logging in from. After the readings for this week I will be more aware of what information I access or post during international travel. --[[User:Hds5\|Hds5]] 21:06, 10 April 2012 (UTC)		@Aberg I was also in China not long ago and noticed the difference in Internet speed and what sites you were able to access depending on what location you were logging in from. After the readings for this week I will be more aware of what information I access or post during international travel. --[[User:Hds5\|Hds5]] 21:06, 10 April 2012 (UTC)


	In response to Corporate Ethic on a Filtered Internet, I feel that this whole subject raises even deeper questions, which are only mirrored in the internet conflict. Some nation states are more peaceful than others. Some are more aggressive. Some feel they should intervene in other nations’ affairs. Some feel they shouldn’t. Governments don’t seem to always be looking out for the best interests of their people, but rather just seek to keep a certain group of people in power. Some corporations are coming to hold more real power and influence than traditional nation states and their governments. Through it all, many people are still oppressed, abused, neglected, or manipulated. What we see in a struggle for internet control reflects these broader struggles. Can overarching laws in the true interests of human beings, in general, be constructed and enforced? What international bodies, if any, could be appropriate to outline such laws and enforce them? It would seem we need more internationally agreed upon codes of conduct, in general, but it seems beyond human grasp. If there were an overarching international organism to regulate things like internet, might we just be making a new “Frankenstein” with yet more power, potentially useful for the wrong purposes? These are farther reaching questions, but ones that I see coming up, as we proceed down this road of internet ethics.[[User:Mike\|Mike]] 05:45, 12 April 2012 (UTC)		In response to Corporate Ethic on a Filtered Internet, I feel that this whole subject raises even deeper questions, which are only mirrored in the internet conflict. Some nation states are more peaceful than others. Some are more aggressive. Some feel they should intervene in other nations’ affairs. Some feel they shouldn’t. Governments don’t seem to always be looking out for the best interests of their people, but rather just seek to keep a certain group of people in power. Some corporations are coming to hold more real power and influence than traditional nation states and their governments. Through it all, many people are still oppressed, abused, neglected, or manipulated. What we see in a struggle for internet control reflects these broader struggles. Can overarching laws in the true interests of human beings, in general, be constructed and enforced? What international bodies, if any, could be appropriate to outline such laws and enforce them? It would seem we need more internationally agreed upon codes of conduct, in general, but it seems beyond human grasp. If there were an overarching international organism to regulate things like internet, might we just be making a new “Frankenstein” with yet more power, potentially useful for the wrong purposes? These are farther reaching questions, but ones that I see coming up, as we proceed down this road of internet ethics.[[User:Mike\|Mike]] 05:45, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

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