D I S C U S S I O N
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Discussion Questions for Unit 1
1. The Odyssey is Odysseus' story, yet it starts with the story of Telemakhos (the first four scrolls are sometimes even referred to as the "Telemakhy"). Why start with the Telemakhos' journey? We have said that the journey of Odysseus is a metaphorical 'journey of the soul' - can we see a similar progression for Telemakhos already in these four scrolls? One way to think about this is to examine his interactions and relationships with others: his mother, the suitors, his nurse, Athena disguised as Mentes vs. as Mentor, Nestor, Menelaus, etc.Discussion forum for question 1
Discussion forum for question 1 for first-time readers of Homeric poetry
2. In scroll ii, Telemakhos convenes an assembly (the first one since Odysseus has left!) to ask for help with the suitors and the problems they are causing in his home. How is the state of law/justice in the community presented in this scroll? What are the arguments made on both sides about the situation? How do Mentor's words to the assembly (see below) relate to the metaphor of the righteous king in our central passage?
scroll ii 229ff: [Mentor - the man, not Athena in disguise]: "Hear me, men of Ithaca, I hope that you may never have a kind and well-disposed ruler any more, nor one who will govern you equitably; I hope that all your chiefs henceforward may be cruel and unjust, for there is not one of you but has forgotten Odysseus, who ruled you as though he were your father. I am not half so angry with the suitors, for if they choose to do violence in the naughtiness of their minds [noos], and wager their heads that Odysseus will not return, they can take the high hand and eat up his estate, but as for you others I am shocked at the way in which you the rest of the population [dêmos] all sit still without even trying to stop such scandalous goings on - which you could do if you chose, for you are many and they are few."
Discussion forum for question 2
Discussion forum for question 2 for first-time readers of Homeric poetry
3. As Telemakhos is preparing for his journey, he prays to Athena, who then appears to him in the form of Mentor (scroll ii 262 ff.):
[262] "Hear me," he cried, "you god who visited me yesterday, and bade me sail the seas in search of the nostos of my father who has so long been missing. I would obey you, but the Achaeans, and more particularly the wicked suitors, are hindering me that I cannot do so."
[267] As he thus prayed, Athena came close up to him in the likeness and with the voice of Mentor. "Telemakhos," said she, "if you are made of the same stuff as your father you will be neither fool nor coward henceforward, for Odysseus never broke his word nor left his work half done. If, then, you take after him, your voyage will not be fruitless, but unless you have the blood of Odysseus and of Penelope in your veins I see no likelihood of your succeeding. Sons are seldom as good men as their fathers; they are generally worse, not better; still, as you are not going to be either fool or coward henceforward, and are not entirely without some share of your father's wise discernment, I look with hope upon your undertaking. But mind you never make common cause [noos] with any of those foolish suitors, for they are neither sensible nor just [dikaioi], and give no thought to death and to the doom that will shortly fall on one and all of them, so that they shall perish on the same day.
What are the father/son dynamics set up not only in this passage, but in the first four scrolls as a whole? (We will continue to think about this throughout our reading!) How has Telemakhos fared without a father all his life, and how will going to inquire about his father's nostos make a difference?
Also, why does Athena have to warn Telemakhos not to join in with the suitors? Why would he? And from the characterization of the suitors as 'neither sensible nor just', how can we begin to define justice at this point in the narrative?
Discussion forum for question 3
Discussion forum for question 3 for first-time readers of Homeric poetry
Discussion Questions for Unit 2
1. In scroll viii, Odysseus is entertained in the court of the Phaeacians, where the singer Demodokos sings three songs. The subject of the third song--the story of the wooden horse and the fall of Troy--is requested by Odysseus himself (scroll viii 487-498): "Demodokos, there is no one in the world whom I praise with admiration more than I do you. You must have studied under the Muse, Zeus' daughter, and under Apollo, - with such a sense of order [kosmos] do you sing the return of the Achaeans with all their sufferings and adventures. If you were not there yourself, you must have heard it all from some one who was. Now, however, change your song and tell us of the construction [kosmos] of the wooden horse which Epeios made with the assistance of Athena, and which Odysseus got by stratagem into the fort of Troy after freighting it with the men who afterwards sacked the city. If you will sing this tale aright I will tell all the world how magnificently heaven has endowed you." His reaction to the story is one of lamentation. Why is this story entertainment for the Phaeacians but a source of grief for Odysseus?Discussion forum for question 1
Discussion forum for question 1 for first-time readers of Homeric poetry
2. Odysseus tells the story of his journey in scrolls ix-xii. We heard in Professor Nagy's lecture the thematic importance of Odysseus' learning the noos of those he met. Considering the different places and peoples (the Laestrygonians, the Cyclops, the Lotus-Eaters, Scylla and Charybdis, Circe's island, and even the Phaeacians), what can we discern about the state of society and social justice in each one? How does learning the noos of each contribute to Odysseus' own conception of justice, or to ours?
Discussion forum for question 2
Discussion forum for question 2 for first-time readers of Homeric poetry
3. When Odysseus travels to the underworld in scroll xi, he has the chance to see and communicate with many heroes, male and female. How do these conversations connect with the ideas of hero cult we heard about in the introductory lecture? How are these ghosts [psukhai] able to communicate with him--that is, what must Odysseus do to awaken their consciousness? What can we make of Teiresias' prophecy about what Odysseus must do after he kills the suitors (see xi 121ff.)? How do the conversations with Achilles, Agamemnon, and Herakles help to define Odysseus' heroic status?
Discussion forum for question 3
Discussion forum for question 3 for first-time readers of Homeric poetry
Discussion Questions for Unit 3
1. Once Odysseus arrives in Ithaka, he makes a series of "reconnections" with his philoi, those who are near and dear to him. How is the order in which he makes these reconnections significant? How does Odysseus "introduce" himself to various people? As one example, consider the ainos that Odysseus tells Eumaios at xiv 459ff. (note that Eumaios calls it an ainos at xiv 508). Also, compare the reaction of the dogs as Odysseus approaches Eumaios at xiv 29ff. with the story of Argos at xvii 290ff.Discussion forum for question 1
Discussion forum for question 1 for first-time readers of Homeric poetry
2. Consider the metaphors used in these scenes of reconnection. For example, an important reconnection for Odysseus is, of course, with his son in scroll xvi, and in considering this scene, we might reconnect ourselves to our prevous discussion of Telemakhos in Unit 1. After Odysseus reveals himself, the father and son are compared in their crying to birds (xvi 213ff.): "As he spoke he sat down, and Telemakhos threw his arms about his father and wept. They were both so much moved that they cried aloud like eagles or vultures with crooked talons that have been robbed of their half fledged young by peasants. Thus piteously did they weep..." What is the significance of the metaphor? Can we find any common threads in the metaphors used in these scrolls?
Discussion forum for question 2
Discussion forum for question 2 for first-time readers of Homeric poetry
3. In Scroll xix of the Odyssey, Penelope speaks with the guest in her home, the disguised Odysseus. At one point in their conversation (xix 535ff.), Penelope tells him about a dream she had--the passage is included below. Examine the details of the dream, including the "metaphor" that explains itself. Compare this dream to the portent in scroll xv 160ff.--why is Penelope's dream so like the omen that Helen, of all people, interprets? Why is Penelope telling the dream to the "stranger" and asking him to interpret it if the dream has, in effect, interpreted itself? Why would Odysseus have a vested interest in there being only one interpretation? Do you think Penelope knows that she is speaking to her husband? And why does she say that she thinks the dream is one of the false variety? Be sure to look at the surrounding context for clues in how to interpret the passage.
"Listen, then, to a dream that I have had and interpret it for me if you can. I have twenty geese about the house that eat mash out of a trough, and of which I am exceedingly fond. I dreamed that a great eagle came swooping down from a mountain, and dug his curved beak into the neck of each of them till he had killed them all. Presently he soared off into the sky, and left them lying dead about the yard; whereon I wept in my room till all my maids gathered round me, so piteously was I grieving because the eagle had killed my geese. Then he came back again, and perching on a projecting rafter spoke to me with human voice, and told me to leave off crying. "Be of good courage," he said, "daughter of Ikarios; this is no dream, but a vision of good omen that shall surely come to pass. The geese are the suitors, and I am no longer an eagle, but your own husband, who am come back to you, and who will bring these suitors to a disgraceful end." On this I woke, and when I looked out I saw my geese at the trough eating their mash as usual."
[554] "This dream, lady," replied Odysseus, "can admit but of one interpretation, for had not Odysseus himself told you how it shall be fulfilled? The death of the suitors is portended, and not one single one of them will escape."
[559] And Penelope answered, "Stranger, dreams are very curious and unaccountable things, and they do not by any means invariably come true. There are two gates through which these unsubstantial fancies proceed; the one is of horn, and the other ivory. Those that come through the gate of ivory are fatuous, but those from the gate of horn mean something to those that see them. I do not think, however, that my own dream came through the gate of horn, though I and my son should be most thankful if it proves to have done so. Furthermore I say - and lay my saying to your heart - the coming dawn will usher in the ill-omened day that is to sever me from the house of Odysseus, for I am about to hold a tournament [athlos] of axes."
Discussion forum for question 3
Discussion forum for question 3 for first-time readers of Homeric poetry
Discussion Questions for Unit 4
1. The suitors who have acted with hubris are killed by Odysseus, Telemakhos, Eumaios, and Philoitios, as are the female slaves who collaborated with them. How does the poetry itself talk about the justice in these killings? What can we make of the planned revenge for the suitors' death, and how this confrontation is described? Consider the arguments that the relatives of the suitors make in scroll xxiv, and how the confrontation and the epic as we have it ends, especially the imagery in this final passage (xxiv 516ff., below). Why does Athena encourage the first throw? Can we connect the thunderbolt and eagle imagery with those we have seen elsewhere in the poem?[516] On this Athena came close up to him and said, "Son of Arceisius - best friend I have in the world - pray to the gray-eyed damsel, and to Zeus her father; then poise your spear and hurl it."[520] As she spoke she infused fresh vigor into him, and when he had prayed to her he poised his spear and hurled it. He hit Eupeithes' helmet, and the spear went right through it, for the helmet stayed it not, and his armor rang rattling round him as he fell heavily to the ground. Meantime Odysseus and his son fell the front line of the foe and smote them with their swords and spears; indeed, they would have killed every one of them, and prevented them from ever getting home again, only Athena raised her voice aloud, and made every one pause. "Men of Ithaca," she cried, "cease this dreadful war, and settle the matter at once without further bloodshed."
[533] On this pale fear seized every one; they were so frightened that their arms dropped from their hands and fell upon the ground at the sound of the goddess' voice, and they fled back to the city for their lives. But Odysseus gave a great cry, and gathering himself together swooped down like a soaring eagle. Then the son of Kronos sent a thunderbolt of fire that fell just in front of Athena, so she said to Odysseus, "Odysseus, noble son of Laertes, stop this warful strife, or Zeus will be angry with you."
[545] Thus spoke Athena, and Odysseus obeyed her gladly. Then Athena assumed the form and voice of Mentor, and presently made a covenant of peace between the two contending parties. [548]
Discussion forum for question 1
2. In scroll xxiv, Odysseus makes his last 'reconnection' with his father Laertes. What is significant about the garden imagery (one of our central passages) and the story Odysseus tells before revealing himself? Consider also the intergenerational relationships between fathers and sons in the following passage (xxiv 502ff):
[502] Then Zeus' daughter Athena came up to them, having assumed the form and voice of Mentor. Odysseus was glad when he saw her, and said to his son Telemakhos, "Telemakhos, now that you are about to fight in an engagement, which will show every man's mettle, be sure not to disgrace your ancestors, who were eminent for their strength and courage all the world over."[510] "You say truly, my dear father," answered Telemakhos, "and you shall see, if you will, that I am in no mind to disgrace your family."
[513] Laertes was delighted when he heard this. "Good heavens, he exclaimed, "what a day I am enjoying: I do indeed rejoice at it. My son and grandson are vying with one another in the matter of valor [aretê]."
Discussion forum for question 2
3. Speaking of endings, the Alexandrian scholars Aristarchus and Aristophanes ('of Byzantium') thought that the "end" of the Odyssey was line 296 of scroll xxiii, after Odysseus and Penelope go "joyfully to the rites of their own old bed." How would ending here change our understanding of the major issues we have been discussing? Where would you end the Odyssey if you were composing it in performance?