Thursday 7pm Chatlog 20061109

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[15:58] USA Brody is Online

[16:00] USA Brody: Yvette, great podcast by the way

[16:00] USA Brody: Hilarious

[16:00] You: (blush) my nose was all stuffed

[16:00] Rebecca Berkman: can you hear it?

[16:00] USA Brody: yes. I can.

[16:01] Rebecca Berkman: i love that.

[16:01] USA Brody: Can you hear it Yvette

[16:01] You: oh I disabled the audio thingies I have to turn it back on

[16:01] Rebecca Berkman: you should have a "music control" box at the bottom of your screen.

[16:01] Lorelei Junot is Offline

[16:01] You: frappe has an amazing voice

[16:02] USA Brody: yeah.

[16:02] USA Brody: I like Pere Utu

[16:02] USA Brody: Ezi

[16:02] USA Brody: I mean his podcast

[16:03] Rebecca Berkman: what about the people who are on SL during a meeting at work...

[16:03] USA Brody: wow you can hear it all the way up in the clouds

[16:03] Rebecca Berkman: awesome.

[16:03] USA Brody: cool mp3 player

[16:03] Rebecca Berkman: yeah, i'm very happy with it.

[16:03] Rebecca Berkman: it isn't perfect, but it works.

[16:04] Rebecca Berkman: uh oh.

[16:04] Rebecca Berkman: twins.

[16:04] Rebecca Berkman: if you want to play something else, you'll probably have to hit clear first

[16:04] USA Brody: Alright

[16:04] USA Brody: wanna pose for a pic?

[16:04] USA Brody: lol

[16:04] You: ah stooop

[16:04] USA Brody: I love this, very creative.

[16:05] You: i've heard this a billion times

[16:05] Rebecca Berkman: i'm sure.

[16:05] You: i'm turning down the volume

[16:05] Rebecca Berkman: you have to listen so many imtes before you get done.

[16:05] Rebecca Berkman: (feel free...)

[16:05] You: i hate my voice

[16:05] You: it's very annoying

[16:05] USA Brody: I don't think so.

[16:05] Rebecca Berkman: i think everyone feels that way.

[16:05] Rebecca Berkman: it always sounds worse than in your own head

[16:06] Rebecca Berkman: i think because of the resonance we get from our own bodies making it sound so much better in our heads.

[16:06] You: pity

[16:06] Rebecca Berkman: so what do you guys think?

[16:06] Rebecca Berkman: will more ppl come from your group?

[16:07] USA Brody: Probably

[16:07] You: yup

[16:07] Rebecca Berkman: why don't you guys tell me a bit about how your project is going.

[16:07] Rebecca Berkman: do you have particular things that you are working on right now?

[16:08] USA Brody: I am reading, "the essential guide to telecommunications," and "FCC Rules on Internet-based communication."

[16:08] You: We get a lot of progress when we meet but when we actually start talking about things and ideas start going then time is up and someone has to go

[16:08] Blaise Syaka is Online

[16:08] Rebecca Berkman: (i couldnt' resist a picture of you two!)

[16:09] USA Brody: lol

[16:09] Rebecca Berkman: what is your group planning to do for your project? what is the final product or event going to be?

[16:10] Rebecca Berkman: Hey Blaise.

[16:10] USA Brody: Good question. I think we have a target and a good plan. However, I think as more discussion is made those targets will change.

[16:10] USA Brody: The target is:

[16:11] Blaise Syaka: hi team!

[16:11] You: vaguely we were discussing building several rooms with built-in speakers that stream voice

[16:11] Rebecca Berkman: oh, that sounds interesting.

[16:11] USA Brody: The integration of Voice in SL can result in varying degrees of discrimination against the residents, and this project will address issues regarding the impact of Voice on the social network.

[16:11] USA Brody: that is the vague

[16:12] Rebecca Berkman: what would be the idea of the streaming voice demonstrations?

[16:12] Rebecca Berkman: (i mean, i can think of some good ones, but I'm wondering what you thought that could accomplish?)

[16:12] USA Brody: the integration of VOIP technology into SL can act as an enabler to the handicap

[16:13] You: well, we could do it live, but we just wanted people to walk through the rooms themselves without us being there

[16:13] USA Brody: sorry, wrong line

[16:13] Rebecca Berkman: ok, so would you have a recording from a disabled person talking?

[16:13] USA Brody: pasted a minute ago

[16:13] Rebecca Berkman: what would be in the recordings?

[16:13] You: We haven't defined that yet but have to talk with more disabled people

[16:14] USA Brody: Yvette, I would really like to nominate a group leader!

[16:14] Rebecca Berkman: oh, i see.

[16:14] Rebecca Berkman: so you do want to focus on disabled people?

[16:14] You: and we have to define what disabled means

[16:14] Rebecca Berkman: or just people who could benefit from the addition of voice to SL?

[16:14] You: because our disability doesn't necessarily mean physical disability

[16:15] Rebecca Berkman: perhaps you could do a voice interview with a person who can't type (b/c of disability or otherwise)

[16:15] USA Brody: shyness

[16:15] Rebecca Berkman: and perhaps an interview with someone who wants voice for another reason, like because they don't like the typed communication.

[16:15] You: yes someone mentioned a person without hands for instance

[16:15] USA Brody: yeah.

[16:15] USA Brody: right.

[16:15] Rebecca Berkman: or a business person, who might use SL for meetings if it had voice but not without voice.

[16:16] Rebecca Berkman: or a lecturer who wants to give live classes but just can't type fast enough.

[16:16] USA Brody: I think we should lobby for linden labs to allow the avatar to turn the feature on or off.

[16:16] USA Brody: An Avatar's right to chose!

[16:16] You: the important thing, as frappe pointed out

[16:16] Rebecca Berkman: it does seem to me like it would be better to allow both voice and chat.

[16:16] You: is that we should have the choice

[16:16] You: and that it should not be forced

[16:17] Rebecca Berkman: well maybe since LL seems to be heading towards adding voice, you might focus on the people who benefit from not having voice.

[16:17] Rebecca Berkman: your recordings could demonstrate the reasons for not having it.

[16:17] Rebecca Berkman: like you say, doing a recording with a heavy accent.

[16:17] Rebecca Berkman: and a recording with a stutter.

[16:17] Rebecca Berkman: maybe a recording (ideally staged) of a person who is whispering at work b/c they are on SL while in a meeting.

[16:18] USA Brody: ah...

[16:18] You: we're not sure at this point just how much of the pro side we want to show

[16:18] Rebecca Berkman: maybe a recording with an image of someone who is not the same gender (and/or age) in SL as in RL

[16:18] USA Brody: yes.

[16:18] USA Brody: Excellent.

[16:19] Rebecca Berkman: so what would you say your group's position is?

[16:19] Rebecca Berkman: pro-choice on voice?

[16:19] USA Brody: Pro avatar choice.

[16:19] USA Brody: pro choice on voice sounds good

[16:19] USA Brody: give us the choice

[16:19] You: which means negative I guess

[16:19] USA Brody: We want an environment for, by, and of the avatar

[16:20] Rebecca Berkman: what do you mean by negative, Yvette?

[16:20] Rebecca Berkman: do you mean against where LL says it is going?

[16:20] You: we are against someday suddenly voice being incorporated everywhere in SL

[16:21] Rebecca Berkman: does that mean that you would like to have "no voice" areas or just that you would like an avatar to still have the ability to chat instead?

[16:21] Rebecca Berkman: btw, i can think of some good reasons for no voice areas too.

[16:21] You: in other words, we know the advantages, but we'd like to point out the disadvantages, which is why we want to have the choice

[16:21] Rebecca Berkman: it seems to me that it is often very nice that we can all talk at once without it being confusing.

[16:21] USA Brody: It should be our choice regardless or not if we own land.

[16:21] USA Brody: yes.

[16:21] Rebecca Berkman: it makes it much more difficult than in RL for someone to monopolize the conversation.

[16:23] Blaise Syaka: I think we should include whether "no voice area" = a choice to use voice

[16:23] Rebecca Berkman: ok, so i'm still a little confused what you guys want the outcome to be.

[16:23] Rebecca Berkman: i see several options.

[16:24] Rebecca Berkman: one is that everyone has to use voice all the time and everywhere.

[16:24] USA Brody: sorry, back...

[16:24] Rebecca Berkman: one is that no one gets to use voice anywhere (except if they stream through the land)

[16:24] Rebecca Berkman: one is that everyone gets to choose whether to use voice everywhere.

[16:24] You: the last one

[16:24] Rebecca Berkman: one is that some places are free choice, some are no voice and some are voice.

[16:25] Rebecca Berkman: so who do you see as the audience of your project? who are you trying to convince?

[16:25] You: we are not going to go into zoning issues

[16:25] USA Brody: Everyone in SL

[16:25] Rebecca Berkman: ok, i think that is much simpler (and probably a better solution).

[16:25] You: that is not part of our scope I think

[16:25] USA Brody: right.

[16:25] Rebecca Berkman: (though you might have to convince me that i don't need/want the power to ban voice on my land...)

[16:25] USA Brody: Maybe LL

[16:26] USA Brody: What if you are playing live music?

[16:26] USA Brody: and you don't want everyone talking

[16:26] USA Brody: so everyone can hear the music

[16:26] Rebecca Berkman: right--or i am playing a podcast that i want everyone to listen to.

[16:26] USA Brody: yes.

[16:26] Rebecca Berkman: or i am giving a lecture using the audio stream.

[16:26] You: It is the more general idea of the need to have the choice to go to places where you don't have to talk in voice

[16:27] USA Brody: or even having a virtual yoga session which requires concentration

[16:27] USA Brody: hehe

[16:27] Rebecca Berkman: i hadn't heard that LL wanted to take away the chat function when they added voice.

[16:27] You: ew I hate yoga

[16:27] USA Brody: hehe

[16:27] Rebecca Berkman: what makes you think that people will be forced to use voice?

[16:27] USA Brody: exactly ....

[16:27] USA Brody: I thought they were going to take away the chat feature, and require voice integration only ....

[16:28] You: It's public consensus if everyone uses voice, people who chat will find it hard to communicate

[16:28] USA Brody: I agree.

[16:28] Rebecca Berkman: oh, that's interesting.

[16:28] Rebecca Berkman: i guess i'm not so convinced of that.

[16:28] Rebecca Berkman: mainly because i think there are lots of reasons people don't want to use sound while they are on SL.

[16:28] You: right now you're used to looking in the lower left hand of your screen

[16:28] USA Brody: Let me look at it more, brb..

[16:28] You: but with voice, maybe you won't do that any more

[16:29] USA Brody: yes.

[16:29] Rebecca Berkman: since i set up this mp3 player, i have come across a lot of people who say they will listen later b/c they are at work or they are on a computer w/ no speakers or lots of reasons.

[16:29] Rebecca Berkman: all those ppl will still want to chat.

[16:29] Blaise Syaka: the trouble comes when a localized area or group has a majority wanting one or the other - which format 'should' prevail?

[16:29] Rebecca Berkman: plus all the ppl w/ accents, different sex than av, etc.

[16:30] Rebecca Berkman: it is a very thorny problem...

[16:30] You: If a person doesn't want to use voice, people may think it is because that person has a problem

[16:30] You: or wants to hide something

[16:31] Rebecca Berkman: so what you guys want to do is to counter that public perception in SL?

[16:31] Rebecca Berkman: to convince ppl not to be "voicist"?

[16:31] USA Brody: I can't find the voice information in the policy section of the LL website

[16:31] Blaise Syaka: yes, that is part of it

[16:31] USA Brody: or when they plan on integrating the feature

[16:32] USA Brody: Anyone know?

[16:32] Rebecca Berkman: well i think the idea of a room (or other structure) that lets people hear from users who choose not to use voice would be a great way to do that.

[16:32] Rebecca Berkman: it would help the people who disagree with you empathize with your position.

[16:32] USA Brody: like a public forum place

[16:32] You: I think it should only be available in designated areas

[16:33] Rebecca Berkman: ah, so you do want some "no voice" areas?

[16:33] USA Brody: sure. but if you own the land, then what?

[16:33] Blaise Syaka: if we only want voice in or meetings, can we impose it....that is what can lead to trouble as well

[16:33] USA Brody: do you have the choice to allow voice

[16:33] USA Brody: ?

[16:33] Rebecca Berkman: we can't allow voice now.

[16:33] Rebecca Berkman: the feature is not ready yet.

[16:33] USA Brody: what if I can't afford a mic.

[16:33] Rebecca Berkman: the best i can do is set up an audio stream where i can play music or voice, recorded or live, into SL.

[16:34] USA Brody: How do I participate in SL

[16:34] Rebecca Berkman: but that doesn't allow for a class conversation.

[16:34] Rebecca Berkman: ok, so let's get this straight.

[16:34] Rebecca Berkman: are you guys arguing for "no-voice" areas or not?

[16:34] You: I don't think that's the point

[16:35] USA Brody: the choice of the avatar to turn on or off the featuer is my perspective....

[16:35] Blaise Syaka: I think we are approaching it from the angle of "don't impose it without consent...or consensus"

[16:35] USA Brody: and use which ever mode of communication chosen

[16:35] You: Do we have to say whether or not we want no-voice areas

[16:35] USA Brody: not forced

[16:35] Rebecca Berkman: but yvette, you just said that you think it shoudl be available only in designated areas.

[16:35] You: oh yeah, that was my personal opinion

[16:35] Rebecca Berkman: ok, i see.

[16:35] Rebecca Berkman: so your group is arguing that it should be available everywhere, and that chat should too.

[16:36] USA Brody: for, by, and of the avatar I say!

[16:36] USA Brody: Let freedom ring!

[16:36] USA Brody: MLK

[16:36] Rebecca Berkman: or at least that chat should remain available and that SL residents should be sensitive to including typers in conversation.

[16:36] Rebecca Berkman: the basic thing seems to be making the case for why people should continue to tolerate typers.

[16:36] Rebecca Berkman: is that fair to say?

[16:36] Blaise Syaka: that's it Rebecca

[16:36] You: We want chat to remain

[16:37] USA Brody: we should not banty or veto the choices of others....

[16:37] USA Brody: we should be tolerant!

[16:37] Rebecca Berkman: ok, well i seriously doubt that LL is planning to remove chat in any case.

[16:37] USA Brody: Now that I think about it, I agree.

[16:37] Rebecca Berkman: so i think the more serious issue is whether we as residents continue to respect the wishes of the typers and continue to include them.

[16:37] USA Brody: But .....

[16:37] Blaise Syaka: we want it 'all' inclusive, so that no one can be excluded...if that makes sense...

[16:38] Rebecca Berkman: that makes sense.

[16:38] USA Brody: yes!

[16:38] USA Brody: Pluralism!

[16:38] Rebecca Berkman: i think my chat is lagging a bit...

[16:39] Rebecca Berkman: ok, so back to the second question.

[16:39] Rebecca Berkman: since the real issue is convincing fellow residents to respect typers, the question is how you can do that.

[16:39] Rebecca Berkman: what would cause people to stop looking in the left corner of their screens?

[16:39] Rebecca Berkman: what is it that they get out of it?

[16:40] USA Brody: it is not voice.

[16:40] Rebecca Berkman: b/c in order to convince them, you'll have to understand where they are coming from and let them know that you understand.

[16:40] USA Brody: it is a change from the norm.

[16:40] USA Brody: of the mundane, of the everyday routine, it is a second life. ..

[16:41] USA Brody: or with continual participation could become a function of the mundane, the routine, and the everyday life....

[16:41] You: I think we're sort of shifting the topic and I'm getting confused

[16:41] USA Brody: okay.

[16:41] USA Brody: let us re-group then ...

[16:42] Rebecca Berkman: so let's back up a sec.

[16:42] Rebecca Berkman: i'll recap where i think we are.

[16:42] Rebecca Berkman: we've identified what your group wants to do:

[16:42] Rebecca Berkman: that is, you want to advocate for equal treatment of typers, both in the technology and culture of SL.

[16:43] Rebecca Berkman: and we've determined that the equal technology isn't likely to change--actually, i've pretty much just asserted it, but let's go with it for now at least.

[16:43] Rebecca Berkman: so the main thing you have to do is to convince the residents of SL that they should continue to treat typers well once voice is integrated.

[16:43] USA Brody: facts. issues. questions to address.

[16:43] Rebecca Berkman: in order to convince those people, you will have to understand and be able to empathize with their perspective.

[16:44] You: we don't have to prove that they will be treated bad once voice is integrated?

[16:44] USA Brody: ah.

[16:44] Rebecca Berkman: well, i'm not sure.

[16:44] Rebecca Berkman: perhaps you will have to do that too.

[16:44] USA Brody: well, we could point out the hypothetical or interview someone

[16:44] Rebecca Berkman: but if they turn out not to feel that way, then there is no problem.

[16:44] USA Brody: we could take a deep dive

[16:44] Rebecca Berkman: so the problem only arises once people start treating people badly.

[16:45] Rebecca Berkman: so what you really have to do is to figure out what woudl cause people to treat typers badly and respond directly to those motivations.

[16:45] You: but since voice isn't integrated yet, people aren't feeling badly yet

[16:45] USA Brody: true.

[16:45] USA Brody: we could be creating awarenss for equality

[16:45] Rebecca Berkman: that's true--the problem you have chosen is still hypothetical.

[16:46] Rebecca Berkman: but it seems that it is very likely to become real, and perhaps the sooner you begin persuading people, the more effective it will be.

[16:46] You: but if we talk to real people and their fears, it doesn't have to be hypothetical, right

[16:46] Blaise Syaka: but we should also have a deterrent factor as well shouldn't we?

[16:46] USA Brody: or make people more aware that not everybody can afford, use, or understand the voice feature

[16:46] Rebecca Berkman: that's true.

[16:46] Rebecca Berkman: you know their fears.

[16:46] Rebecca Berkman: but to respond to that, to do something about it, you have to speak to the peopel that they are afraid of.

[16:46] You: Do you think it's too risky?

[16:46] Rebecca Berkman: no, i don't think so.

[16:47] Rebecca Berkman: i just think you first need to understand why someone would start behaving badly.

[16:47] Rebecca Berkman: and then you need to figure out a way to speak directly to the future bad-actors to convince them not to start acting like that.

[16:47] You: It's not exactly because the bad-actors are acting badly

[16:48] USA Brody: excellent approach. but how would we know who they could possibly be?

[16:48] You: the typers may feel left out

[16:48] You: It's sort of like dressing

[16:48] Rebecca Berkman: but i think you want to argue that the voice people should be sensitive to that and should make an effort not to leave the typers out, right?

[16:48] You: If you go somewhere and everyone is dressed up and you're wearing a plain Tshirt and pants you may feel left out

[16:49] USA Brody: or feel comfortable

[16:49] You: which is why people make a lot of freebies for those people so they can get a jump start

[16:49] USA Brody: I have felt left out all dressed up before...

[16:49] USA Brody: by not being myself...

[16:49] USA Brody: forced to dress up...

[16:50] Rebecca Berkman: right, so you want to find a way for those of us who use voice to help the people who are typing not feel left out, right?

[16:50] USA Brody: right.

[16:51] You: something like that. Also, right now the typing makes sounds, which may or may not clash when voice comes in

[16:51] Rebecca Berkman: ok, so let me try to give you an example of how one might try to do what i'm talking about.

[16:51] Rebecca Berkman: perhaps you might argue:

[16:52] Rebecca Berkman: voice is coming to SL and for many residents it will bring great new capabilities.

[16:52] Rebecca Berkman: we will be able to hold business and other meetings more fluidly,

[16:52] Rebecca Berkman: we will remove the barriers to entry for lots of people,

[16:52] Rebecca Berkman: we will not have to go so slowly in our conversation.

[16:53] Rebecca Berkman: once it is there, it is also likely that we will start to feel annoyed by people who type.

[16:53] Rebecca Berkman: it will be harder for them to fit into our conversations because they will be so much slower.

[16:53] Rebecca Berkman: and we will forget to look for their remarks on our screens, especially when their typing sounds are drowned out.

[16:54] Rebecca Berkman: you may think, hey, no big deal, let them get a mic and some headphones.

[16:54] Rebecca Berkman: but it is not quite so simple.

[16:54] Rebecca Berkman: in fact, when you consider the situation, you may find that even you have many times that you prefer to type instead of talk.

[16:54] Rebecca Berkman: what if you are at work or otherwise among people where you cannot be talking?

[16:55] Rebecca Berkman: what if you don't like the sound of your voice or it doesn't suit your avatar?

[16:55] Rebecca Berkman: what if you want to be able to listen to music and chat at the same time?

[16:55] Rebecca Berkman: (and some more...)

[16:55] USA Brody: or if you have a soar throat!

[16:55] You: (It's such a shame that the two members who were strongly inclined towards setting the topic for voice are not here)

[16:55] Rebecca Berkman: and if those reasons aren't good enough for you, consider the situation of people who really benefit from not ahving to talk.

[16:56] USA Brody: I agree!

[16:56] USA Brody: lol

[16:56] Rebecca Berkman: for instance, there are people who stutter who have been able to establish much easier conversations by typing.

[16:56] USA Brody: Those are excellent Rebecca

[16:56] USA Brody: yes.

[16:56] USA Brody: agreed

[16:56] Rebecca Berkman: there are those with heavy accents.

[16:56] USA Brody: yes, indeed.

[16:57] Rebecca Berkman: and there are group reasons as well, such as not wanting to hear that guy at the club blabbing on and on, drowning out your conversation or the music.

[16:57] Rebecca Berkman: etc. etc.

[16:58] Rebecca Berkman: so the idea of what i just did was to try to get into the mindset of someone excited about the addition of voice, and let them know that i knew why they were excited.

[16:58] Blaise Syaka: Thanks for sharing your insights Rebecca, we really appreciate it.

[16:58] Rebecca Berkman: then, once they understood that i knew where there were coming from (i hope) i could start to make some arguments to persuade them that they might prefer to be sensitive.

[16:58] Blaise Syaka: now we have to condense everything into a focused argument...

[16:58] USA Brody: Yes. thank you for the feedback and interaction

[16:58] You: one question that I have about an emphatic argument is

[16:58] USA Brody: PS. Today marks the 17th Anniversary of the Fall of the Berlin Wall !

[16:59] You: what would you have to do to refute it?

[16:59] USA Brody: find an inconsistancy

[16:59] Rebecca Berkman: you mean, if someone uses it on you?

[16:59] You: yeah

[16:59] USA Brody: reverse it.

[17:00] You: but it would be weaker

[17:00] Rebecca Berkman: well, the basic structure of an empathic argument is to state the issue in a way that is so fair to the other side that they have to agree that your statement is fair.

[17:00] Rebecca Berkman: then, once you've stated it, you have a common ground and you start giving your arguments for why they should change their mind.

[17:00] USA Brody: well put becca..

[17:00] Rebecca Berkman: there are a few things to note.

[17:01] Rebecca Berkman: first, if you do a good job stating their argument, you will find the problems with your own point of view.

[17:01] Rebecca Berkman: because they will have good reasons and your arguments will need to address those good reasons.

[17:01] Rebecca Berkman: but in the end, if you don't succeed in addressing their concerns, you will not persuade them.

[17:01] Rebecca Berkman: and that is where it comes to countering an empathic argument.

[17:02] You: so if everyone does their homework, there is no fighting?

[17:02] Rebecca Berkman: once the issue is stated, it just becomes like a regular argument.

[17:02] Rebecca Berkman: both sides agree to the problems, and then can argue about the solution.

[17:02] USA Brody: it is more like a dialetical mode of argument, yea?

[17:02] Rebecca Berkman: many times it turns out like you say: once all the interests are on the table, it is easier to find a solution that works for everyone.

[17:02] USA Brody: dialectical mode of discourse

[17:03] Rebecca Berkman: but sometimes there is no solution that works for everyone and it still comes down to try to show that your arguments are better or more important than those of the other side.

[17:04] Rebecca Berkman: what is nice about it is that it gets rid of the stupid parts of arguments wehre people talk right past each other and aren't actually listening to each other or making progress.

[17:04] You: that is a very interesting theory because I would think that the interests of both parties would pretty much be already on the table

[17:04] Rebecca Berkman: i think actually they often are not.

[17:05] You: I see

[17:05] Rebecca Berkman: or, isn't that they aren't on the table, it is just that we all feel that we want our opposition to acknowledge our interests.

[17:05] Rebecca Berkman: and if our opposition doesn't do that, we tend to just keep pushing for that and pushing for that.

[17:05] You: That is true

[17:05] Rebecca Berkman: so if our opposition just starts off by doing that, we can get over that obstacle and move on to trying to find a solution.

[17:06] You: I am covering the stem cell fraud case and they are talking apples and oranges

[17:06] Rebecca Berkman: yes, exactly.

[17:06] Rebecca Berkman: one think that often makes it easier to think about is when you think of convincing a jury. (or being a juror)

[17:06] Rebecca Berkman: they don't have a position.

[17:06] USA Brody: Hi, Jo!

[17:07] Rebecca Berkman: but if you just start giving your side without showing the other side, it is not very convincing.

[17:07] Joe Petrel: Hi

[17:07] Rebecca Berkman: oh wait! i have a great example!

[17:07] Rebecca Berkman: political ads.

[17:07] USA Brody: lol

[17:07] Rebecca Berkman: you know how political ads are never convincing because you don't feel like you are getting the whole story?

[17:08] Rebecca Berkman: you really wish they would tell it to you more straight--give you the info on how the other side would respond.

[17:08] Blaise Syaka: interesting...that is true.

[17:08] Rebecca Berkman: because you can't make decision without having that info.

[17:08] Rebecca Berkman: does that make sense?

[17:09] You: yeah. however, unless it's a debate, a campaign team isn't sure whether it's good or bad for a candidate to make a direct response to what another candidate has said

[17:09] Rebecca Berkman: so, i'm not advocating that.

[17:10] Joe Petrel: Revecca: Sorry I am late. What;s happening?

[17:10] You: small talk

[17:10] Rebecca Berkman: i'm advocating a politician, all by herself, stating the issue in a way that is really fair to both sides, and then making an argument for why it should turn out her way.

[17:10] Rebecca Berkman: Hi Joe, this evening i'm meeting with small groups of Extension School students about their projects.

[17:10] You: It's a shame most politicians don't know how to give a good speech

[17:10] Rebecca Berkman: This meeting is actually wrapping up (or needs to) b/c there is another group at 8pm.

[17:11] Joe Petrel: Sorry, I'll come back at 8.

[17:11] Rebecca Berkman: At 9 there is an at-large meeting where we're basically doing the same thing.

[17:11] Dancer Morris: no worries, Rebecca -- we don't seem to have critical mass tonight

[17:11] Rebecca Berkman: oh, i meant 6pm SLT is the at-large meeting.

[17:11] Rebecca Berkman: you are welcome to stay.

[17:11] Rebecca Berkman: ok, 7pm folks.

[17:11] Rebecca Berkman: thanks so much for talking with me!

[17:11] Rebecca Berkman: your project sounds really good.

[17:11] You: Thanks so much for organizing everything

[17:12] USA Brody: Thanks rebecca...

[17:12] Rebecca Berkman: i love the idea of the room with the audio streams.

[17:12] Blaise Syaka: thanks for your time Rebecca!

[17:12] USA Brody: You have quite the capacity to think things through becca!

[17:12] Rebecca Berkman: i would like to talk with you more as you plan your specific way of going forward!

[17:12] Dancer Morris: ack! The Snoopys are multiplying!

[17:12] Rebecca Berkman: Dancer, are you the 8pm group?

[17:12] Dancer Morris: yes, me and Anapeas

[17:12] Dancer Morris: but we're the only two here

[17:13] Rebecca Berkman: 7pm people, you are welcome to stay and talk with the 8pm group too, but we'll focus on their issue.

[17:13] Rebecca Berkman: Nice look Yvette!

[17:13] Dancer Morris accepted your inventory offer.

[17:13] Rebecca Berkman: I love that!

[17:13] USA Brody: okay, see you all!

[17:13] USA Brody: hahah

[17:13] Dancer Morris: the Full Metal Dragon -- it's fun

[17:13] USA Brody: that is great

[17:13] Rebecca Berkman: Dancer, let's meet here so that we can use the mp3 player to listen to your podcasts.

[17:13] Rebecca Berkman: Do you think others will be joining us?

[17:14] Dancer Morris: Dana sent regrets... I haven't heard from the rest of the group

[17:14] USA Brody: hey yvette

[17:14] Dancer Morris: they're not in-world though

[17:14] You: hm

[17:14] You: Do you think the others will come later?

[17:14] Dancer Morris: I don't know

[17:14] USA Brody: don't know

[17:14] Blaise Syaka: I don't think so

[17:15] USA Brody: but it kinda stinks being the lone advocates

[17:15] USA Brody: But you know, life happens!

[17:15] USA Brody: So what should we do now?

[17:15] Dancer Morris: at least it's easy for me to tell whether they're around -- we have an SL group

[17:16] Blaise Syaka: now we have to rfine the topic...

[17:16] USA Brody: agreed.

[17:16] You: sigh

[17:16] USA Brody: do you want to move into a private area

[17:17] USA Brody: I don't use the moodle well because I cannot check my student email at work.

[17:17] Cannot complete attachment. An attachment is pending for that spot.

[17:17] Blaise Syaka: it'll take me some time to digest Rebecca's statements and I have to put my daughter to bed

[17:17] USA Brody: And if I sign up for the moodle with my law.harvard.edu address I will get a ton of messages and miss them.

[17:17] USA Brody: Yeah. Me too.

[17:17] USA Brody: Rebecca made great points.

[17:17] USA Brody: should we meet later.

[17:18] USA Brody: ?

[17:18] You: I'll see if I can stop by

[17:18] USA Brody: or should we do some individual communications via wiki

[17:18] USA Brody: or IM

[17:18] USA Brody: or something

[17:18] USA Brody: email

[17:18] You: we should but it keeps on not working out

[17:19] Blaise Syaka: email could work - asynchronous but effective

[17:19] USA Brody: yeah. we could do a google group also.

[17:19] Blaise Syaka: I still have to prepare a presentation for tomorrow, so I have a long night ahead

[17:20] Blaise Syaka: sick or not, work continues..

[17:20] USA Brody: I have a test on Regulated environments and agencies soon, and a 10 page paper on monday

[17:20] Blaise Syaka: uggh...sounds painful

[17:20] You: I missed a press conference this morning

[17:21] USA Brody: Yeah - painful works well.

[17:21] USA Brody: I only have eight pages done

[17:21] USA Brody: and its due in four days... ahhhhh!

[17:22] Blaise Syaka: all right team... let's review the Rebecca's posts and then tweak the wiki

[17:22] You: kay

[17:22] USA Brody: okay. sounds great

[17:22] USA Brody: until next time my friends

[17:22] Blaise Syaka: cool...later team!

[17:22] You: bye

[17:22] USA Brody: goodnight