Thursday 7pm Chatlog 20061102

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[15:59]  Charly Santana is Online
[16:02]  Mobile Widget is Offline
[16:02]  Tooter Claxton: die was hier net.
[16:02]  Moonbeam Kuiper: Nee. Jammer
[16:03]  Yvette Kumsung: hi
[16:03]  Frappe Lapointe is Online
[16:04]  Yvette Kumsung: yeah
[16:04]  Yvette Kumsung: hello
[16:04]  Frappe Lapointe: Hello
[16:04]  You: hi
[16:05]  Frappe Lapointe: Hello Brody
[16:05]  You: cool place, yeah!
[16:05]  You: literally!
[16:05]  You: lol
[16:05]  Frappe Lapointe: Vey nice
[16:05]  Yvette Kumsung: lol
[16:05]  You: I love the rug
[16:06]  Yvette Kumsung: can't get my clothes to rez
[16:06]  You: where are we?
[16:06]  Yvette Kumsung: I'm working on that brick building there
[16:06]  You: this place is cool looking
[16:06]  Yvette Kumsung: This is my private plot
[16:06]  You: the one in front of me
[16:06]  Yvette Kumsung: Thanks!
[16:07]  Frappe Lapointe: Very Nice
[16:08]  Yvette Kumsung: hm. should we start?
[16:08]  You: well, we can if you'd like
[16:08]  You: all in favor, say i.
[16:08]  You: i
[16:08]  Frappe Lapointe: I
[16:08]  Yvette Kumsung: aye
[16:08]  You: okay, the i's havee it
[16:08]  Yvette Kumsung: kk
[16:09]  You: so what do you want to do for the project?
[16:09]  You: we have a broad topic
[16:09]  You: censorship
[16:09]  Yvette Kumsung: Did you see the suggestion Gene made?
[16:09]  You: I saw parts of it, but did not get a chance to really dig in.... as I have been working all week.
[16:09]  You: could you elaborate a tad for me
[16:10]  You: I got so many moddle messages this wekk.
[16:10]  You: was it in relation to VOIP in Sl?
[16:10]  You: and latin america
[16:10]  You: or was it the one before that
[16:11]  Yvette Kumsung: NO IT Was just to make the topic more specific i think
[16:11]  You: oh, yes.
[16:11]  You: of course.
[16:11]  Frappe Lapointe: Basically we have a good idea But we need to narrow it down
[16:11]  Frappe Lapointe: and we can go either way
[16:11]  You: what is our idea, broadly?
[16:11]  Frappe Lapointe: But we need to find an impact on SL users
[16:11]  You: exactly
[16:12]  You: what is our broad idea, censorship?
[16:12]  You: guess not
[16:12]  Yvette Kumsung: basically yes
[16:13]  Frappe Lapointe: Sorry I was just checking the moodle
[16:13]  Frappe Lapointe: for an more responses
[16:13]  You: no prob
[16:13]  Yvette Kumsung: with some relation to how new voice services will affect it
[16:13]  Yvette Kumsung: but we haven't decided whether we will look at the legal aspects or social aspects
[16:13]  You: well, we can look at the social aspects pretty easily.
[16:14]  You: but we need to find people who it will impact or get basic opinions
[16:14]  You: I can always talk to Moo Money again
[16:14]  Yvette Kumsung: I've gotten pretty friendly with moo
[16:15]  You: we could see if people who are parents are worried that somebody my have some type of cyber with their children via voice chat or something
[16:15]  Yvette Kumsung: this is the moo dress I made her lol
[16:15]  You: wow, that is awesome
[16:15]  You: you are an SL rockstar
[16:15]  Frappe Lapointe: Yes very Nice
[16:15]  Yvette Kumsung: thanks
[16:16]  You: okay. so I suppose that integrating voice is going to change experience
[16:16]  Yvette Kumsung: hm. but don't you think voice will let people know more whether or not you're an adult?
[16:16]  You: in SL for everybody
[16:16]  You: sure.
[16:16]  Frappe Lapointe: I also think it would be good to talk to Wilde Cunningham
[16:16]  You: it could.
[16:16]  You: great idea.
[16:16]  Yvette Kumsung: I liked the aspect about how it could give more voice to some, but could be discriminative for others
[16:17]  Frappe Lapointe: Yes it could but if someone wants I am sure they can change there voice
[16:17]  Frappe Lapointe: Yes
[16:17]  You: we could also look at a legal regulatory impact on the phone industry
[16:17]  You: exactly
[16:17]  You: it would be another form of long distance calling of sorts
[16:17]  You: can your voice be recorded an stored
[16:17]  Frappe Lapointe: but are we getting to broad again
[16:17]  You: can it be wire tapped by the NSA
[16:17]  You: etc.
[16:18]  Yvette Kumsung: I don't think the details are out yet
[16:18]  You: similar to US stories
[16:18]  Frappe Lapointe: Yes a voice can be recorded
[16:18]  Yvette Kumsung: but I don't think we should explore possibilities.
[16:18]  You: yes, or monitored. invasion of privacy
[16:18]  You: okay
[16:18]  Frappe Lapointe: yes we should keep it to today
[16:18]  You: so SL has not integrated voice yet?
[16:19]  Frappe Lapointe: No it is not fully intergrated
[16:19]  Frappe Lapointe: that is coming in the near future
[16:19]  You: is it inegrated at all
[16:19]  You: is it accesbile now
[16:19]  Yvette Kumsung: I think we should just decide on one of the themes we have and just work on that
[16:19]  Frappe Lapointe: there are products that you can have a mic for group chats
[16:19]  You: okay.
[16:19]  Yvette Kumsung: we're losing too much time
[16:19]  You: sounds good
[16:20]  You: so. what do you propose?
[16:20]  Yvette Kumsung: wju dpm
[16:20]  You: any ideas?
[16:20]  Yvette Kumsung: oops
[16:20]  Yvette Kumsung: why don't we vote on what we already have
[16:20]  Frappe Lapointe: so first what is our goal for tonight?
[16:20]  You: okay.
[16:20]  You: excellent question
[16:20]  Yvette Kumsung: let's find a specific "problem"
[16:21]  You: yes.
[16:21]  Yvette Kumsung: and then we can explore how to address it and how it affects people in SL
[16:21]  Frappe Lapointe: For the first one, tools do control the content...the people controlling the tools control the content, so this one is a little tricky. An alternative approach would be the "availability" of tools to citizens once created, e.g. if a fee is charged, or o
[16:21]  Frappe Lapointe: that is from Brein
[16:22]  Frappe Lapointe: and this too
[16:22]  Frappe Lapointe: The second thesis has the geographic complexity of identifying where SL is actually domiciled...that could be interesting to explore. Given that we have an international team, this may provide a great opportunity for some diversity of opinions...even if
[16:22]  Yvette Kumsung: it's still too vague
[16:22]  Frappe Lapointe: we stage some of them
[16:22]  Frappe Lapointe: yes I agree
[16:23]  You: okay.
[16:23]  Frappe Lapointe: there is one more
[16:23]  Frappe Lapointe: we can go the education route and even tie in the "No Child Left Behind" Act. I think the social networking concept with a translation engine could be a interesting aspect, and this may also tie into the podcast project, e.g. if the audience is the globa
[16:23]  Frappe Lapointe: global community, should it be in English (a more accurate description is "American"), or should we include a few dialects, etc. I think options 2 and 3 are the strongest, and I'm inclined to go with #3, if I was forced by the Linden Voice Police to mak
[16:23]  Yvette Kumsung: How about this: voice will give disabled persons and undereducated an opportunity to engage in cyber, but it can also discriminate people who are non-native speakers
[16:24]  Frappe Lapointe: That was Brien
[16:24]  Frappe Lapointe: Okay but wait
[16:24]  Frappe Lapointe: That is good
[16:24]  You: I like that idea
[16:24]  Yvette Kumsung: that goes with 3 right?
[16:24]  Frappe Lapointe: but I was thinking about it from the opposite way
[16:24]  Blaise Syaka is Online
[16:24]  You: or it could serve as a learning device for english
[16:25]  Frappe Lapointe: Yes
[16:25]  Yvette Kumsung: yes I do
[16:25]  You: hi, blaise
[16:25]  Yvette Kumsung: I guess there are various aspects
[16:25]  Frappe Lapointe: Hello Blaise
[16:25]  Blaise Syaka: Hello team!
[16:25]  You: yes. surely
[16:25]  You: hi
[16:25]  Yvette Kumsung: Hi. I was showing off my warehouse
[16:25]  Blaise Syaka: cool
[16:25]  You: it is something to show off for sure
[16:26]  You: okay. so we were saying?
[16:27]  Frappe Lapointe: Nice
[16:27]  You can't create trees and grass on land you don't own
[16:28]  Yvette Kumsung: strange sofas
[16:28]  Frappe Lapointe: Okay so Blaise
[16:28]  Yvette Kumsung: maybe we should ask blaise if he has any extra ideas
[16:29]  Frappe Lapointe: we are trying to narrow down the topic
[16:29]  You: yes, great idea
[16:29]  Blaise Syaka: I posted a few on Moodle about an hour ago
[16:29]  Frappe Lapointe: I ported them over while were talking
[16:29]  Blaise Syaka: xellent
[16:29]  Frappe Lapointe: I liked #3
[16:30]  Frappe Lapointe: but are we still to open
[16:30]  Blaise Syaka: I'm with you there...good potential, but any are workable.
[16:31]  Blaise Syaka: maybe we should go by process of elimination instead of choosing what we like?
[16:31]  Frappe Lapointe: But I also like the idea Yvette had
[16:31]  Frappe Lapointe: How about this: voice will give disabled persons and undereducated an opportunity to engage in cyber, but it can also discriminate people who are non-native speakers
[16:31]  You: what about Yvette's idea?
[16:31]  You: yes.
[16:31]  You: that is great
[16:31]  Yvette Kumsung: actually that was an extension of the idea that we had last week
[16:31]  Frappe Lapointe: and I am looking back becuase Briody had something good
[16:31]  Frappe Lapointe: I know that
[16:31]  Frappe Lapointe: sorry Brody
[16:32]  You: which idea was that?
[16:32]  Frappe Lapointe: bad typing tonight
[16:32]  You: np
[16:32]  You: no prob
[16:32]  You: okay. well I really like Yvette's idea. I think it is solid.
[16:33]  Frappe Lapointe: aorund talking to both parents and say moo money
[16:33]  Blaise Syaka: with the disabled angle, we can bring in the ADA...interesting with the voice issues.
[16:33]  Yvette Kumsung: hehe
[16:33]  You: possibly
[16:33]  Frappe Lapointe: Yvette
[16:33]  Yvette Kumsung: yeah?
[16:33]  Frappe Lapointe: put your clothes on
[16:33]  You: but ADA only applies to america
[16:33]  Yvette Kumsung: they are on
[16:33]  You: to the USA
[16:33]  You: it is a regulatory agency, right?
[16:33]  Yvette Kumsung: Darn. something must be wrong with my avatar
[16:33]  Frappe Lapointe: Yes we tlaked about a few people last week
[16:34]  Blaise Syaka: not exactly - it is a legislative act
[16:34]  You: okay.
[16:34]  You: oh, yeah. sorry.
[16:34]  You: american disabilities act
[16:34]  You: thinking of the dental association again.
[16:34]  Blaise Syaka: you've got it
[16:34]  Yvette Kumsung: now are they on?
[16:34]  Frappe Lapointe: yes and cunninghams would be good to speak with
[16:34]  Frappe Lapointe: if they like the idea if voice or not
[16:34]  Frappe Lapointe: YES
[16:35]  Frappe Lapointe: they are
[16:35]  You: yeah. true.
[16:35]  Yvette Kumsung: great. because I look naked to myself (although it says the clothes are on)
[16:35]  You: yeah. clothes are on.
[16:35]  Yvette Kumsung: shouldn't have gotten that eye surgery
[16:35]  You: what is our thesis statement now?
[16:36]  Yvette Kumsung: scrolling..
[16:36]  You: the integration of VOIP technology into SL can act as an enabler to the handicap
[16:36]  You: however,
[16:36]  You: the integration can be discremenatory to those who are not fluent english speakers?
[16:37]  You: or is that too big?
[16:37]  Frappe Lapointe: but it also includes the language, education
[16:37]  Yvette Kumsung: right
[16:37]  Frappe Lapointe: level
[16:37]  Frappe Lapointe: maybe that is to much
[16:37]  Yvette Kumsung: disabled doesn't mean physically disabled
[16:37]  You: sure.
[16:37]  Frappe Lapointe: true
[16:37]  You: maybe I used the wrong terminology
[16:37]  Yvette Kumsung: or maybe we should just focus on the former part
[16:38]  You: okay. which is?
[16:38]  Yvette Kumsung: about the disabled?
[16:38]  You: okay. let me review here.
[16:38]  Frappe Lapointe: okay
[16:38]  Frappe Lapointe: you know what is bad about this group
[16:39]  Frappe Lapointe: is we have come up with to many good ideas
[16:39]  You: the integration of VOIP technology into SL can act as an enabler to the handicap
[16:39]  Blaise Syaka: grin
[16:39]  Yvette Kumsung: I think that's a good topic
[16:39]  Frappe Lapointe: I do to
[16:39]  Yvette Kumsung: (though I don't agree with it)
[16:39]  Frappe Lapointe: that is good
[16:39]  You: okay, well if you don't agree then we can change.
[16:39]  Yvette Kumsung: yeah
[16:39]  Yvette Kumsung: no no
[16:39]  Frappe Lapointe: See I think more on your lines
[16:39]  Yvette Kumsung: I mean, I don't agree that it will give them more freedom
[16:39]  You: just state why and we can integrate it into our argument
[16:40]  You: an enabler
[16:40]  Mobile Widget is Online
[16:40]  You: is a little different
[16:40]  Frappe Lapointe: I think it can be hurt them as well
[16:40]  You: sure.
[16:40]  You: absolutely
[16:40]  Frappe Lapointe: so that is why this is a good topic
[16:40]  You: depending on the disability
[16:40]  Frappe Lapointe: yes
[16:40]  Yvette Kumsung: anyways, we do need to focus on the pros and cons in any situation
[16:40]  You: exactly
[16:40]  Frappe Lapointe: okay we are only missing one to vote so should we go with it?
[16:40]  You: we can use a benefit measure of some sorts
[16:41]  Yvette Kumsung: So I guess our focus is more like: How does voice affect the handicapped?
[16:41]  You: in SL
[16:41]  Yvette Kumsung: Does it give them more freedom of speech, or does it not?
[16:41]  Blaise Syaka: it presents both side from an ethical, as well as legal standpoint, so it should be pretty good.
[16:41]  Yvette Kumsung: We can base our conclusions on interviews
[16:41]  You: it can give them freedom of speech and also act as an aggregator of discrimenation
[16:41]  Blaise Syaka: nice angle
[16:42]  Frappe Lapointe: very good
[16:42]  Yvette Kumsung: right, but we're not actually handicapped, so we should talk to people before drawing conclusions
[16:42]  You: so there is a trade off
[16:42]  You: My best friend is in a wheel chair
[16:42]  Yvette Kumsung: maybe they see things entirely differently
[16:42]  Frappe Lapointe: well waiy
[16:42]  Frappe Lapointe: wait
[16:42]  You: so the voice is not really an issue
[16:42]  Frappe Lapointe: we can use us also
[16:42]  Yvette Kumsung: we should also define "handicapped"
[16:42]  Frappe Lapointe: becuase if you have a studder you may not want to speak
[16:43]  Frappe Lapointe: YES
[16:43]  You: exactly
[16:43]  You: it can shy people away in a place where they can be free
[16:43]  Yvette Kumsung: maybe it could people with handicaps for typing vs. people with handicaps for voice
[16:43]  You: could what?
[16:44]  Yvette Kumsung: a broken leg isn't much a handicap in SL
[16:44]  Blaise Syaka: i'm definitely typing-disabled
[16:44]  Yvette Kumsung: could be..
[16:44]  You: what about speech enabled typing
[16:45]  Blaise Syaka: I have tried it in SL...too much memory to make it work well
[16:45]  You: okay.
[16:45]  Frappe Lapointe: Typing can be a handicap
[16:45]  You: sure.
[16:45]  Frappe Lapointe: paralysis
[16:45]  Yvette Kumsung: people with no hands
[16:45]  Frappe Lapointe: yes
[16:45]  Frappe Lapointe: so we could have a split
[16:45]  You: one big question
[16:46]  Yvette Kumsung: so we're talking about handicaps in relation to typing and voice
[16:46]  You: do people have a choice on using the integrated voice feature or can it be turned off?
[16:46]  Yvette Kumsung: (not upset stomachs or anything)
[16:46]  Frappe Lapointe: so what were are saying is that both with have to coincide
[16:46]  Yvette Kumsung: It can be muted in certain areas if the owner of the land wishes to
[16:47]  You: can the user say, "I don't want this feature?"
[16:47]  Frappe Lapointe: I would think so
[16:47]  Frappe Lapointe: otherwise they will lose users
[16:47]  Yvette Kumsung: yes, but like typing, if the entire population starts doing voice, it will be hard to resist
[16:47]  You: okay that will rule out some arguments then . . .
[16:47]  Blaise Syaka: good point Yvette
[16:47]  You: that is a social norm issue
[16:47]  Yvette Kumsung: yeah
[16:48]  You: so, if the norm becomes voice then our idea has fire.
[16:48]  Frappe Lapointe: yes
[16:48]  Blaise Syaka: yes
[16:48]  Yvette Kumsung: even if it only affects a minority though, it's still a strong argument
[16:48]  Blaise Syaka: I think we've got it folks!
[16:48]  You: the integration of VOIP technology into SL can act as an enabler to the handicapped individual
[16:48]  Yvette Kumsung: because the Internet is considered to be an agora for everyone's thoughts
[16:49]  Yvette Kumsung: and supposedly is less discriminating
[16:49]  You: sorry for the mispelling of discrimination earlier. btw
[16:49]  Yvette Kumsung: np
[16:49]  Frappe Lapointe: That is part of typing
[16:49]  You: yes.
[16:50]  You: so. what is our thesis statement?
[16:50]  Yvette Kumsung: I'm going to miss typing though (unrelated to discussion)
[16:50]  Frappe Lapointe: Funny this is what Blaise and I were talking about in our interview
[16:51]  Yvette Kumsung: I have a different manner of speech when I type
[16:51]  Blaise Syaka: we can definitely use part it Frappe.
[16:51]  You: me too.
[16:51]  You: so. our theis statement is?
[16:51]  You: thesis*
[16:52]  Yvette Kumsung: (and imagine, now you can't say 'haha' without really laughing)
[16:52]  You: yeah. haha
[16:52]  Blaise Syaka: lol
[16:52]  You: sorry
[16:52]  Yvette Kumsung: hehe
[16:52]  You: meant to chuckle
[16:52]  You: so. our thesis statement anyone?
[16:53]  Mobile Widget is Offline
[16:53]  You: wow. nobody
[16:53]  You: any ideas?
[16:54]  Frappe Lapointe: sorry lost you for a minute
[16:54]  Frappe Lapointe: okay
[16:54]  Blaise Syaka: cutting and pasting didn't work, but I was going to pull your statement from earlier = enabling, etc.
[16:54]  You: the integration of VOIP technology into SL can act as an enabler to the handicap
[16:54]  You: that one?
[16:55]  Blaise Syaka: modified
[16:55]  You: okay. modify by all means
[16:55]  You: I think we should also communicate as a group by using a google group of somesort. because moodle is not cool.
[16:56]  Blaise Syaka: to include the voice and how it can lead to discrimination and how we may all be 'disabled' in some way - in SL
[16:56]  Dana3429 Bartlett is Online
[16:56]  You: and social norms
[16:56]  Blaise Syaka: yes
[16:56]  You: being able to disable the voice feature
[16:56]  Yvette Kumsung: oh SHOOOT
[16:57]  You: what?
[16:57]  Yvette Kumsung: I forgot that I had to take a train and missed it
[16:57]  Yvette Kumsung: just got a call
[16:57]  You: okay. do you need to go?
[16:57]  Yvette Kumsung: yes. I forgot about daylight savings
[16:58]  Frappe Lapointe: Well I think we are at a good point
[16:58]  Frappe Lapointe: yes
[16:58]  You: me too.
[16:58]  Blaise Syaka: see you later Yvette
[16:58]  Frappe Lapointe: Bye Yvette
[16:58]  Blaise Syaka: so how do we break up the research on this one?
[16:58]  You: I will try to copy and past the discussion on the wiki page for you
[16:58]  Blaise Syaka: or should we follow up in moodle
[16:58]  Blaise Syaka: tomorrow...
[16:58]  Yvette Kumsung: sorry
[16:58]  You: okay. I can eat the fruit snacks
[16:59]  Yvette Kumsung is Offline
[16:59]  Frappe Lapointe: I can put the chat in the moodle if it is easier
[16:59]  Frappe Lapointe: and than we can go from there
[16:59]  You: great. but someone has put them on the wiki too.
[16:59]  Frappe Lapointe: I can do that also
[17:00]  You: okay. we have to wait to talk to pere utu also
[17:00]  Frappe Lapointe: yes
[17:00]  You: before we divide up the research
[17:00]  Frappe Lapointe: so first I will put it in the moodle
[17:00]  You: we can't just surprise him. lol
[17:00]  Frappe Lapointe: and they we can all check it tomorrow
[17:00]  Blaise Syaka: sounds least we're almost there
[17:01]  Frappe Lapointe: I agree
[17:01]  You: agreed.
[17:01]  Frappe Lapointe: oh what is the PDcast all about?
[17:01]  Frappe Lapointe: podcst
[17:01]  You: it really stinks Pere Utu is not here
[17:01]  Frappe Lapointe: pI kow
[17:01]  Frappe Lapointe: I know
[17:01]  You: this was an important meeting
[17:02]  You: I feel like he missed out on something huge.
[17:02]  You: without being able to add input
[17:02]  You: don't know about the Pod cast thing yet.
[17:02]  Blaise Syaka: I don't even own an iPod
[17:02]  Blaise Syaka: yet...
[17:02]  You: I know it is due monday and I watched the video
[17:03]  You: but I haven't been able to get mine to work with my microphone
[17:03]  You: should we depart?
[17:03]  Blaise Syaka: do you need an ipod to do a podcast?
[17:03]  Frappe Lapointe: sure.. okay I will post the chat
[17:03]  You: don't think so
[17:03]  Frappe Lapointe: No you donot
[17:03]  Blaise Syaka: okay..we can catch up tomorrow on the rest.
[17:04]  Blaise Syaka: via good ole moodle
[17:05]  Blaise Syaka: thanks team, and sorry for the delay in my arrival...I was sans computer for awhile.
[17:05]  Frappe Lapointe: That is okay
[17:06]  Frappe Lapointe: Just an FYI
[17:06]  Frappe Lapointe: I will be in DC next Thursday
[17:06]  Frappe Lapointe: SO iam trying ot work it so that I willnot miss our meeting
[17:06]  Frappe Lapointe: must just in case
[17:06]  Frappe Lapointe: if you do not see me I am stuck somewhere
[17:07]  Blaise Syaka: fair enough...see you in the moodle discussion later then
[17:07]  Frappe Lapointe: Yes
[17:08]  Frappe Lapointe: see tomorrow or later if you are going back to the online campus
[17:08]  Frappe Lapointe: I think we did good tonight
[17:08]  Frappe Lapointe: I have the chat so I will post
[17:08]  Frappe Lapointe: it
[17:08]  Blaise Syaka: excellent.. thanks Frappe!
[17:09]  Frappe Lapointe: Ciao
[17:09]  Blaise Syaka: hasta luego!
[17:09]  Blaise Syaka is Offline