Thursday 7pm Chatlog 20061019

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[16:03]  USA Brody is Online
[16:05]  You: yep
[16:05]  USA Brody: so, is it just you and I tonight?
[16:05]  You: hopefully blaise and i forget the other name
[16:06]  USA Brody: I didn't understand that
[16:06]  You: blasie sydaka is another of our group
[16:06]  USA Brody: oh
[16:06]  USA Brody: lol
[16:06]  USA Brody: Sorry
[16:06]  You: and thers another girl who i can't remember
[16:06]  USA Brody: I should have known... my bad..
[16:07]  USA Brody: so how is life going Pere Utu
[16:07]  You: good good, hard to keep up with the homework
[16:07]  Blaise Syaka is Online
[16:07]  You: theres blaise
[16:07]  USA Brody: in which class
[16:07]  You: this one!
[16:07]  USA Brody: oh
[16:08]  You: whats the plan for tonight?
[16:08]  Blaise Syaka: hi team!
[16:08]  You: hi blaise!
[16:08]  USA Brody: Hey, did you see we got the project in on time and it was extended... LOL
[16:08]  USA Brody: We were one of the only groups to get an interview done
[16:08]  USA Brody: we lucked out
[16:09]  You: good job blaise
[16:09]  USA Brody: blaise, what's going on?
[16:09]  Blaise Syaka: new kkeyboard
[16:09]  Blaise Syaka: working it out...
[16:09]  USA Brody: nice.
[16:10]  You: hello gaigin
[16:10]  Blaise Syaka: confounded technology!
[16:10]  Gaigin Helios: Hi Pere
[16:10]  USA Brody is Offline
[16:10]  USA Brody is Online
[16:10]  Blaise Syaka: okay, I think I have eveything connected corectly.
[16:11]  You: so what do we get up to tonight?
[16:11]  You: project discussion?
[16:11]  USA Brody: hey, back from the crash
[16:11]  Blaise Syaka: Focusing on the project sounds good
[16:11]  USA Brody: did anyone get that email from earlier from Gene and Rebecca
[16:11]  You: no?
[16:11]  Blaise Syaka: not yet
[16:11]  USA Brody: about the class project and expectations
[16:12]  USA Brody: blaise?
[16:12]  Blaise Syaka: the last one is from noon today
[16:12]  USA Brody: yeah.
[16:12]  USA Brody: can you forward that to me by chance?
[16:12]  USA Brody: I have deleted it.
[16:13]  Blaise Syaka: sure, I will send that now
[16:13]  USA Brody: do you have my address?
[16:13]  You: progress in the process
[16:13]  Blaise Syaka: not handy... what is it?
[16:13]  You: sounds like we need to flesh out the wiki
[16:13]  USA Brody: [redacted]
[16:14]  You: i kept mixing up ur 2 names earlier in the week, was describing the class 2 someone
[16:14]  You: for a second there brien james the newscaster was in SL
[16:15]  Blaise Syaka: okay William. You should have it now
[16:16]  You: no frappe?
[16:16]  You: we move on?
[16:17]  USA Brody is Offline
[16:17]  USA Brody is Online
[16:17]  Blaise Syaka: it looks like two parts: Project proposal, where we are graded as a group. second is team of evaluation - that is graded individually. Frappe will be late.
[16:17]  You: k
[16:18]  You: looking at the wiki now
[16:18]  You: http://stateofplayacademy.com/mod/wiki/view.php?id=103
[16:18]  USA Brody: okay back from another crash
[16:18]  USA Brody: I am at the Wiki now
[16:19]  Sphere Narayan: another meeting?
[16:19]  USA Brody: so, what is our project on again?
[16:19]  USA Brody: I completely forgot for the moment
[16:19]  You: hi sphere, yes, no selling plz
[16:19]  USA Brody: freedom of speech
[16:19]  Sphere Narayan: kk
[16:20]  Blaise Syaka: freedom of speech an censorship
[16:20]  You: voice censorship i thought? but i like the freedom of speech idea
[16:20]  You: just put our names up
[16:20]  Blaise Syaka: we can combine both: voice and censorshp in the freedom of speech context
[16:20]  USA Brody: did you all see the interview that Yvette and I competed for the group as it relates to the project
[16:20]  You: yes!
[16:21]  Blaise Syaka: yes
[16:21]  USA Brody: okay. what did you think?
[16:21]  You: good job!
[16:21]  USA Brody: did it relate well ?
[16:21]  USA Brody: to this question of freedom of speech or expression?
[16:21]  USA Brody: in SL
[16:21]  You: dunno, gonna go read it again
[16:21]  USA Brody: okay.
[16:22]  Blaise Syaka: I will have to take a closer look too...
[16:22]  USA Brody: well I was thinking maybe we could define the intersection point of where SL allows you to create Machinima at a low cost
[16:22]  USA Brody: and if the individual owns the actual creation
[16:22]  USA Brody: and if this is a limit or type of censorship or something or if there is a tradeoff
[16:23]  USA Brody: I am up for anything
[16:23]  You: property limitations are cenrship?
[16:23]  You: copyright as censorship?
[16:24]  USA Brody: possibly
[16:24]  Blaise Syaka: that would be a stretch... but it is possible
[16:24]  USA Brody: maybe
[16:24]  USA Brody: well, if you can create this great machinima in sl for free and produce money or something .... but the trade off is you don't own the property
[16:24]  USA Brody: Sure we have to look at the license agreement
[16:24]  USA Brody: but any research is helpful
[16:25]  Blaise Syaka: the trick is copyrights grant, the owner or author exclusivity - so who would be prevented from using, is what we would have to determine
[16:25]  USA Brody: excellent
[16:25]  USA Brody: approach
[16:25]  USA Brody: I don't know what we should do. I am up for anything.
[16:25]  USA Brody: I am simply putting ideas on the table
[16:26]  USA Brody: I have mucho legal resources in the HLS LIbrary if nobody else does...
[16:26]  USA Brody: or anybody is not local
[16:26]  USA Brody: I found a book on electronic commerce law yesterday that was quite nice and easy to cite
[16:27]  USA Brody: **Book
[16:27]  Blaise Syaka: looking at your interview William, it seems more like a choice 2 topic- Regarding property and contract
[16:27]  You: i have to be honest, i think its a topic covered by castronova
[16:27]  USA Brody: what is castronova?
[16:27]  You: Edward Castronova
[16:27]  USA Brody: ok, sounds good. so its out
[16:27]  USA Brody: what else can we do?
[16:28]  You: the guy who first discoverd Everquest and WoW were equivalent to Jamaica
[16:28]  USA Brody: (insert confusion here) how were they equal to Jamaica?
[16:28]  You: gdp
[16:28]  USA Brody: oh I see
[16:28]  You: and population
[16:28]  USA Brody: economically
[16:29]  You: yes
[16:29]  USA Brody: sweet
[16:29]  Blaise Syaka: Bridget works for the VOIP company that Linden is contracting with....#1 could really integrate her xpertise.
[16:29]  You: his book on synthetic worlds is highly recommeded
[16:29]  You: has entire chunks on is crafting in MMO a job and who owns the crafted goods anyway
[16:30]  You: is the debate in the sony aution houses, character sales on ebay etc
[16:30]  You: i think the voice and censorship angle is novel
[16:30]  You: and bridgets insight would be key
[16:31]  You: but don't let me dominate here
[16:31]  Blaise Syaka: It woud make it easier - grin -
[16:31]  USA Brody: we can wait surely, but... in the meantime can we do something?
[16:31]  You: heh, i'm editing the wiki as we speakj
[16:31]  USA Brody: lol
[16:32]  You: # Say your group has chosen censorship and mature content. You might narrow to the issue of the removal of an avatar with the body shape of an 8 year-old child who was being auctioned in the fantasy slave market. More info here. Your group would then foc
[16:32]  You: then focus on the issues that are posed by this specific dispute or situation.
[16:32]  You: i think thats us?
[16:33]  Blaise Syaka: wow - that is a good one pere - let's go with that approach.
[16:33]  USA Brody: sounds good
[16:33]  Blaise Syaka: It fits in with the second paragraph of the Project description
[16:34]  Blaise Syaka: the key would be - what legal liability is there and for whom?
[16:34]  You: lets say u can "voiceplay" a child, does that belong in a mature area?
[16:34]  You: intersting tangent on people with odd voices
[16:35]  USA Brody: well, what type of liability theory do we apply?
[16:35]  You: (i used to work with this woman with a really masculine voice)
[16:35]  Blaise Syaka: lets also look at parental control - and how we can restrict under age users
[16:36]  USA Brody: these all sound great. I am up for anything, and I love to sit in the library for hours!
[16:36]  You: in SL, there are limited body types designed to work-around the child issue
[16:36]  You: any policing is optional
[16:36]  USA Brody: oh, I C.
[16:37]  You: will voice be limited to societal norms?
[16:37]  USA Brody is Offline
[16:37]  USA Brody is Online
[16:37]  USA Brody: back from crash
[16:37]  You: what about language, swear zones?
[16:38]  USA Brody: I think I do not understand these issues well enough as they pertain to SL.
[16:38]  Blaise Syaka: interesting concept - how would a swear zone work?
[16:39]  You: SL is in essense text chat, its im, limited range of emotion/vocal expression
[16:39]  You: what complexity does voice bring to play
[16:39]  You: right now you police yourself in sensitive areas
[16:39]  You: same way you don't go naked, you don't swear in the help island
[16:40]  Blaise Syaka: I'm wih you... I see how this works now.
[16:40]  USA Brody: okay, what type of research do we need to do>
[16:40]  USA Brody: ?
[16:40]  You: so if voice is just an extension of im, then its already incorporated
[16:40]  You: chat lines and obhjectionable content?
[16:41]  Blaise Syaka: censorship /s voice /s "virtual reality"
[16:41]  You: litigation on crossed lines?
[16:41]  Blaise Syaka: that will get us started
[16:41]  You: or public blasphemy, swearing laws in states etc
[16:41]  Gaigin Helios: Excuse me are you part of Cyber One course
[16:41]  You: yes gaigin
[16:41]  USA Brody: yes
[16:42]  Gaigin Helios: There are supposed to be videos available here...do you know where?
[16:42]  You: across the 1st bridge
[16:42]  Gaigin Helios: Okay thanks..
[16:42]  Lola Machin: tks...
[16:42]  You: k, g'luck
[16:43]  Gaigin Helios: Thks sounds like a fun course :)
[16:43]  You: u think theres research there USA?
[16:43]  You: what law is in place to protect minors from calling a sex-line?
[16:43]  You: or the liability of the service-operator?
[16:44]  USA Brody: well, can you make phone calls in SL?
[16:44]  You: no idea, why is voice chat in SL not just a phone call tho'?
[16:44]  You: would linden have to implement e911?
[16:45]  USA Brody: okay, well I am trying to frame this question as it may relate to our SL experience.
[16:45]  You: why is voice chat in SL not just another skype?
[16:45]  USA Brody: sure. I see now.
[16:45]  You: its the freedom of expression questiopn
[16:46]  Blaise Syaka: I think we have to put it in the SL contxt...but integrating realworld application is how we can bring in the legal analysis
[16:46]  USA Brody is Offline
[16:46]  USA Brody is Online
[16:46]  You: eactly
[16:46]  USA Brody: back from crash 4
[16:46]  USA Brody: okay. so where were we.
[16:47]  USA Brody: Is skype regulated?
[16:47]  You: blaise just pointed out we must place voice in SL in context with RL equivalents
[16:47]  Blaise Syaka: do we want to look at integrating the SL terms of service agreement?
[16:47]  You: in what sense Blaise?
[16:47]  USA Brody: I think we are forced to incorporate the SL agreement
[16:48]  Blaise Syaka: For example, looking at how we are supposed to exist here in S. L., and looking at the agreement from the standpointof censorship
[16:49]  You: oh i see, ToS relate to what you are liabile for and indemnify linden against
[16:49]  USA Brody is Offline
[16:49]  USA Brody is Online
[16:49]  Blaise Syaka: that's it
[16:49]  You: thats a good topic
[16:49]  You: thats your research right there USA
[16:49]  USA Brody: what?
[16:49]  USA Brody: I was out because I crashed again
[16:50]  You: i didn't read the ToS, did u? how does it relate to mature content?
[16:50]  You: the SL Terms of Service
[16:50]  Blaise Syaka: we can also look at credit card authoriztion and parental control.... and what that could mean for SL if it is brought back to control the minors.
[16:51]  You: good stuff, cutting and pasting into the wiki
[16:52]  Blaise Syaka: All righty then... it looks like we ar going to go with choice one?
[16:52]  USA Brody: okay
[16:52]  You: i think so
[16:52]  USA Brody: which is?
[16:52]  Blaise Syaka: focusing on minors, censorship, and integrating voice?
[16:52]  You: censorship and mature content
[16:52]  USA Brody: oh, okay.
[16:52]  You: 'zakly
[16:53]  USA Brody: I see on the wiki
[16:53]  Blaise Syaka: cool! very productive meeting gentleman.
[16:53]  Mobile Widget is Offline
[16:53]  Mobile Widget is Online
[16:53]  USA Brody: so, can someone also send me a transcript of the conversation.
[16:54]  USA Brody: I crashed like 4 times
[16:54]  USA Brody: or at least the part important to our group project
[16:54]  You: i'll stick it up on our public wiki
[16:54]  USA Brody: nice.
[16:54]  Blaise Syaka: what is the next step? divvy up the reserch?
[16:54]  USA Brody: how do we approach the project?
[16:54]  You: (minus ur email)
[16:55]  You: look at section 3, 4 and 5 online
[16:55]  USA Brody: do we break down the legal frameworks
[16:55]  Blaise Syaka: that is a good start
[16:56]  You: lets wrap up tonight and move to the wiki and moodle to move forward
[16:56]  USA Brody: do we pose a specific research question, applicable law, state, federal (US only). Do international laws matter?
[16:56]  You: i think we are back in 1 hour for a group gene/becca meeting?
[16:56]  USA Brody: okay.
[16:56]  Blaise Syaka: sounds good pere
[16:56]  USA Brody: what time 9
[16:56]  USA Brody: ?
[16:56]  You: yeah
[16:56]  USA Brody: okay. see you all around then.
[16:58]  You: will do
[16:58]  USA Brody: aight.
[16:58]  Blaise Syaka: if we're meeting at 9pm... then what about the small group that meets at 9? I thought we were not having main group tonight, but I could be wrong.
[16:58]  Blaise Syaka: if we're meeting at 9pm... then what about the small group that meets at 9? I thought we were not having main group tonight, but I could be wrong.
[16:58]  USA Brody: not really sure either. I was just going with the flow.
[16:59]  Yvette Kumsung is Online
[16:59]  Blaise Syaka: I think the answer is in Rebecca as 1016 email...scanning now
[16:59]  Yvette Kumsung: omg I'm so sorry
[17:00]  USA Brody: nice dress!
[17:00]  Yvette Kumsung: i calculated the time wrong
[17:00]  Yvette Kumsung: darn darn
[17:00]  Yvette Kumsung: (hits myself on the head)
[17:00]  You: chat log is here: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/cyberone/wiki/Thursday_7pm_Chatlog_20061019
[17:01]  You: hi yvette
[17:01]  Yvette Kumsung: is it over already?
[17:01]  Blaise Syaka: the e-mail says that were suppoed to meet in small group tonight, nothing about main group
[17:01]  You: sweet
[17:01]  You: can hang around yvette
[17:01]  You: blaise and usa just confirmed 9pm isn't mandatory
[17:02]  Yvette Kumsung: let me get a quick look at the wiki first then :(
[17:02]  Blaise Syaka: we have actually done what Rebecca wanted = make some key decisions about direction, so we are all set there.
[17:02]  Yvette Kumsung: great . thanks
[17:03]  USA Brody: Hmmm .....
[17:03]  You: see here too yvette: http://stateofplayacademy.com/mod/wiki/view.php?id=103&page=Project+Description&thankyou=1
[17:03]  You: heh, we snowballed usa
[17:03]  You: next steps are to define topics of voice and censorship that we find interesting
[17:03]  Yvette Kumsung: It seems like it was a very short session
[17:04]  You: no, thats an hour up there
[17:04]  You: bloody wiki scrolls off to the right tho
[17:04]  You: might have to edit to see full content
[17:04]  You: otherwise its just line by line
[17:05]  Hollywood Muldoon: hi dancer
[17:05]  You: okay, so we r still talking about topics
[17:05]  Dancer Morris: Hello, Hollywood
[17:05]  You: next up is goals
[17:05]  Dancer Morris: took longer than usual to get in tonight -- slow download
[17:05]  You: audience
[17:05]  Dancer Morris: Hello, Dana
[17:05]  Dana3429 Bartlett: howdy
[17:05]  You: strategy
[17:05]  Blaise Syaka: okay team - looks like we are getting kicked out
[17:05]  You: move to autin hall?
[17:05]  Dancer Morris: we'll move somewhere else if you like
[17:05]  Blaise Syaka: sure
[17:06]  Blaise Syaka: we'll go
[17:06]  You: i think we ran over dance, let us move
[17:06]  Yvette Kumsung: you know linden is starting a teen SL in Asia
[17:07]  Yvette Kumsung: It hasn't started yet though
[17:07]  You: oh, thats interesting
[17:07]  Yvette Kumsung: I know
[17:07]  You: different ToS?
[17:07]  You: censorship?
[17:07]  Yvette Kumsung: but here I think they could probably do it because
[17:07]  Yvette Kumsung: most Internet sites already require authoritization
[17:07]  Yvette Kumsung: using resident registration numbers
[17:08]  You: thats ur international angle, USA
[17:08]  Yvette Kumsung: I don't think I could see that happening in the US, could you?
[17:09]  Yvette Kumsung: People would be furious if they had to use their SS number to create SL accounts
[17:09]  Yvette Kumsung: But here, it's a very natural thing
[17:09]  You: interesting, there are no privacy protections in the USA
[17:09]  You: there are just limits on intrusions
[17:09]  Yvette Kumsung: I think it's because in the US it's more about the democracy
[17:10]  You: california is the only one pushing for privacy legislation
[17:10]  Yvette Kumsung: Or maybe it's because Korea is such an internet crazed country
[17:10]  You: lets get back on topic
[17:11]  You: how does the korean angle inpact voice, censorship and freedom of expression
[17:11]  You: (intersting as it is)
[17:11]  Yvette Kumsung: I'm not sure what service the Teen SL will involve here,
[17:12]  Yvette Kumsung: but according to the Web site, one will not be able to speak profanity and so forth
[17:12]  Yvette Kumsung: and there will be no sex-related contents
[17:12]  You: ah, i get it, Western Tech companies kowtowing to asian bureaucracies?
[17:12]  Yvette Kumsung: that seemed very censored to me
[17:12]  You: google all over again?
[17:12]  Yvette Kumsung: I was very surprised
[17:12]  Yvette Kumsung: But they haven't launched the service yet
[17:13]  Yvette Kumsung: I thought it would be interesting to talk to the Linden guys about it
[17:13]  Yvette Kumsung: To know why they're taking a different stance(?) on censorship in different cultures
[17:14]  You: k, i put it up there on the wiki
[17:14]  USA Brody is Offline
[17:14]  You: topics are currently : # Terms of Service in SL and personal liability vs Linden indemnity # credit card authoriztion and parental control.... and what that could mean for SL if it is brought back to control the minors. # Freedom of Expression # Swearing
[17:14]  You: * and Blasphemy. RL laws versus SL ones. * lets say u can "voiceplay" a child, does that belong in a mature area? - intersting tangent on people with odd voices * Western ideals in an international context: Will Sl do a Google China?
[17:15]  You: is that okay with everyone?
[17:15]  Yvette Kumsung: I like the RL laws versus SL laws
[17:15]  Yvette Kumsung: It's very nice to organize
[17:16]  You: next up is to identify goals, audience, strategy
[17:16]  You: strategy will involve individual responsibility
[17:16]  Blaise Syaka: if we go with RL laws - how much scope are we going to give it? US, Korea...Europe?
[17:16]  USA Brody is Online
[17:17]  Yvette Kumsung: Do you think we should point out that sexual harassment can also be different in online/offline?
[17:17]  USA Brody: k, back after crash 5
[17:17]  Yvette Kumsung: I think we should take a general outtake
[17:18]  You: i updated the public wiki USA
[17:18]  Blaise Syaka: making those distincions can be good, if the legal remedy is different.
[17:18]  USA Brody: thanks for the update
[17:19]  You: lets leave the topics for now
[17:19]  You: whats our goal?
[17:19]  You: (to pass cyber1)
[17:19]  Yvette Kumsung: haha yah!
[17:19]  USA Brody: with an A
[17:19]  USA Brody: :)
[17:20]  Yvette Kumsung: I really need an A. I'm terrible with grades
[17:20]  You: better hope the pass/fail project doesn't work then!
[17:20]  USA Brody: I don't think it applies to extension
[17:20]  You: ah, interesting
[17:20]  USA Brody: but maybe it does.... who knows...
[17:21]  You: k, back to goals
[17:21]  Yvette Kumsung: goals= thesis statement?
[17:21]  Blaise Syaka: Maybe the goal should be to just answer the questions under the Project description
[17:21]  You: to prevent the kind of censorship we see in google china?
[17:21]  Mobile Widget is Offline
[17:21]  You: to promote SL anonymity?
[17:21]  Yvette Kumsung: I think one of the goals we should take is not to be too serious and go macro
[17:22]  You: lol @ blaise
[17:22]  You: k, u talking about a protest Yvette?
[17:22]  You: a nude-in?
[17:22]  Yvette Kumsung: lol
[17:23]  Yvette Kumsung: more like...presenting more potential subjects of discussion
[17:23]  You: or a mute-in?
[17:23]  You: keep going
[17:24]  Mobile Widget is Online
[17:24]  You: love the wings blaise
[17:24]  Yvette Kumsung: I just feel, since there is so much potential in this subject and so many things we COULD do,
[17:24]  Blaise Syaka: I'm a lawyer what do you expect....I'm part vampire
[17:25]  Yvette Kumsung: but we should perhaps ignore a lot of the other potential things
[17:25]  Yvette Kumsung: ha, Blaise
[17:26]  You: k, we'll lets move the conversation to moodle and the wiki, i think we've started well on 3/5 project components
[17:26]  You: and i gotta go watch baseball
[17:26]  Yvette Kumsung: okay
[17:26]  USA Brody: k, go mets
[17:26]  You: and get drunk
[17:26]  USA Brody: nice
[17:26]  USA Brody: JK on the mets
[17:26]  USA Brody: I don't watch baseball
[17:27]  You: and try and explain this entire conversation to my wife
[17:27]  USA Brody: lol
[17:27]  Yvette Kumsung: oh that's hard
[17:27]  USA Brody: while you're drunk
[17:27]  You: who has only ever seen SL once and it was when Yvette took her top off in the pod in the sandbox
[17:27]  USA Brody: that would be great
[17:27]  Yvette Kumsung: do other things while you're drunk
[17:27]  USA Brody: lol
[17:27]  Yvette Kumsung: I'm so sorry that happened
[17:27]  You: i'm still paying for that one
[17:27]  USA Brody: :?
[17:28]  You: nudity, she thinks SL is porn
[17:28]  Yvette Kumsung: I've been busy making new outfits
[17:28]  Yvette Kumsung: Tell her I'm a designer
[17:28]  You: will do
[17:28]  Yvette Kumsung: BTW this is my latest
[17:29]  Yvette Kumsung: Becca and I were approached by this lesbian yesterday who claimed to be a Muslim it was sort of scary
[17:29]  Yvette Kumsung: she said she was turned on by female professors
[17:29]  You: scvary
[17:29]  Yvette Kumsung: yes
[17:30]  Blaise Syaka: OK team.. next steps?
[17:30]  You: anyway, i gotta run, u guys enjoy, the entire chat, including this, is on the public wiki
[17:30]  Yvette Kumsung: thanks for everything