Thursday 7pm Chatlog 20061019
Revision as of 00:31, 20 October 2006 by <bdi>146.115.120.196</bdi> (talk)
[16:03] USA Brody is Online [16:05] You: yep [16:05] USA Brody: so, is it just you and I tonight? [16:05] You: hopefully blaise and i forget the other name [16:06] USA Brody: I didn't understand that [16:06] You: blasie sydaka is another of our group [16:06] USA Brody: oh [16:06] USA Brody: lol [16:06] USA Brody: Sorry [16:06] You: and thers another girl who i can't remember [16:06] USA Brody: I should have known... my bad.. [16:07] USA Brody: so how is life going Pere Utu [16:07] You: good good, hard to keep up with the homework [16:07] Blaise Syaka is Online [16:07] You: theres blaise [16:07] USA Brody: in which class [16:07] You: this one! [16:07] USA Brody: oh [16:08] You: whats the plan for tonight? [16:08] Blaise Syaka: hi team! [16:08] You: hi blaise! [16:08] USA Brody: Hey, did you see we got the project in on time and it was extended... LOL [16:08] USA Brody: We were one of the only groups to get an interview done [16:08] USA Brody: we lucked out [16:09] You: good job blaise [16:09] USA Brody: blaise, what's going on? [16:09] Blaise Syaka: new kkeyboard [16:09] Blaise Syaka: working it out... [16:09] USA Brody: nice. [16:10] You: hello gaigin [16:10] Blaise Syaka: confounded technology! [16:10] Gaigin Helios: Hi Pere [16:10] USA Brody is Offline [16:10] USA Brody is Online [16:10] Blaise Syaka: okay, I think I have eveything connected corectly. [16:11] You: so what do we get up to tonight? [16:11] You: project discussion? [16:11] USA Brody: hey, back from the crash [16:11] Blaise Syaka: Focusing on the project sounds good [16:11] USA Brody: did anyone get that email from earlier from Gene and Rebecca [16:11] You: no? [16:11] Blaise Syaka: not yet [16:11] USA Brody: about the class project and expectations [16:12] USA Brody: blaise? [16:12] Blaise Syaka: the last one is from noon today [16:12] USA Brody: yeah. [16:12] USA Brody: can you forward that to me by chance? [16:12] USA Brody: I have deleted it. [16:13] Blaise Syaka: sure, I will send that now [16:13] USA Brody: do you have my address? [16:13] You: progress in the process [16:13] Blaise Syaka: not handy... what is it? [16:13] You: sounds like we need to flesh out the wiki [16:13] USA Brody: [redacted] [16:14] You: i kept mixing up ur 2 names earlier in the week, was describing the class 2 someone [16:14] You: for a second there brien james the newscaster was in SL [16:15] Blaise Syaka: okay William. You should have it now [16:16] You: no frappe? [16:16] You: we move on? [16:17] USA Brody is Offline [16:17] USA Brody is Online [16:17] Blaise Syaka: it looks like two parts: Project proposal, where we are graded as a group. second is team of evaluation - that is graded individually. Frappe will be late. [16:17] You: k [16:18] You: looking at the wiki now [16:18] You: http://stateofplayacademy.com/mod/wiki/view.php?id=103 [16:18] USA Brody: okay back from another crash [16:18] USA Brody: I am at the Wiki now [16:19] Sphere Narayan: another meeting? [16:19] USA Brody: so, what is our project on again? [16:19] USA Brody: I completely forgot for the moment [16:19] You: hi sphere, yes, no selling plz [16:19] USA Brody: freedom of speech [16:19] Sphere Narayan: kk [16:20] Blaise Syaka: freedom of speech an censorship [16:20] You: voice censorship i thought? but i like the freedom of speech idea [16:20] You: just put our names up [16:20] Blaise Syaka: we can combine both: voice and censorshp in the freedom of speech context [16:20] USA Brody: did you all see the interview that Yvette and I competed for the group as it relates to the project [16:20] You: yes! [16:21] Blaise Syaka: yes [16:21] USA Brody: okay. what did you think? [16:21] You: good job! [16:21] USA Brody: did it relate well ? [16:21] USA Brody: to this question of freedom of speech or expression? [16:21] USA Brody: in SL [16:21] You: dunno, gonna go read it again [16:21] USA Brody: okay. [16:22] Blaise Syaka: I will have to take a closer look too... [16:22] USA Brody: well I was thinking maybe we could define the intersection point of where SL allows you to create Machinima at a low cost [16:22] USA Brody: and if the individual owns the actual creation [16:22] USA Brody: and if this is a limit or type of censorship or something or if there is a tradeoff [16:23] USA Brody: I am up for anything [16:23] You: property limitations are cenrship? [16:23] You: copyright as censorship? [16:24] USA Brody: possibly [16:24] Blaise Syaka: that would be a stretch... but it is possible [16:24] USA Brody: maybe [16:24] USA Brody: well, if you can create this great machinima in sl for free and produce money or something .... but the trade off is you don't own the property [16:24] USA Brody: Sure we have to look at the license agreement [16:24] USA Brody: but any research is helpful [16:25] Blaise Syaka: the trick is copyrights grant, the owner or author exclusivity - so who would be prevented from using, is what we would have to determine [16:25] USA Brody: excellent [16:25] USA Brody: approach [16:25] USA Brody: I don't know what we should do. I am up for anything. [16:25] USA Brody: I am simply putting ideas on the table [16:26] USA Brody: I have mucho legal resources in the HLS LIbrary if nobody else does... [16:26] USA Brody: or anybody is not local [16:26] USA Brody: I found a book on electronic commerce law yesterday that was quite nice and easy to cite [16:27] USA Brody: **Book [16:27] Blaise Syaka: looking at your interview William, it seems more like a choice 2 topic- Regarding property and contract [16:27] You: i have to be honest, i think its a topic covered by castronova [16:27] USA Brody: what is castronova? [16:27] You: Edward Castronova [16:27] USA Brody: ok, sounds good. so its out [16:27] USA Brody: what else can we do? [16:28] You: the guy who first discoverd Everquest and WoW were equivalent to Jamaica [16:28] USA Brody: (insert confusion here) how were they equal to Jamaica? [16:28] You: gdp [16:28] USA Brody: oh I see [16:28] You: and population [16:28] USA Brody: economically [16:29] You: yes [16:29] USA Brody: sweet [16:29] Blaise Syaka: Bridget works for the VOIP company that Linden is contracting with....#1 could really integrate her xpertise. [16:29] You: his book on synthetic worlds is highly recommeded [16:29] You: has entire chunks on is crafting in MMO a job and who owns the crafted goods anyway [16:30] You: is the debate in the sony aution houses, character sales on ebay etc [16:30] You: i think the voice and censorship angle is novel [16:30] You: and bridgets insight would be key [16:31] You: but don't let me dominate here [16:31] Blaise Syaka: It woud make it easier - grin - [16:31] USA Brody: we can wait surely, but... in the meantime can we do something? [16:31] You: heh, i'm editing the wiki as we speakj [16:31] USA Brody: lol [16:32] You: # Say your group has chosen censorship and mature content. You might narrow to the issue of the removal of an avatar with the body shape of an 8 year-old child who was being auctioned in the fantasy slave market. More info here. Your group would then foc [16:32] You: then focus on the issues that are posed by this specific dispute or situation. [16:32] You: i think thats us? [16:33] Blaise Syaka: wow - that is a good one pere - let's go with that approach. [16:33] USA Brody: sounds good [16:33] Blaise Syaka: It fits in with the second paragraph of the Project description [16:34] Blaise Syaka: the key would be - what legal liability is there and for whom? [16:34] You: lets say u can "voiceplay" a child, does that belong in a mature area? [16:34] You: intersting tangent on people with odd voices [16:35] USA Brody: well, what type of liability theory do we apply? [16:35] You: (i used to work with this woman with a really masculine voice) [16:35] Blaise Syaka: lets also look at parental control - and how we can restrict under age users [16:36] USA Brody: these all sound great. I am up for anything, and I love to sit in the library for hours! [16:36] You: in SL, there are limited body types designed to work-around the child issue [16:36] You: any policing is optional [16:36] USA Brody: oh, I C. [16:37] You: will voice be limited to societal norms? [16:37] USA Brody is Offline [16:37] USA Brody is Online [16:37] USA Brody: back from crash [16:37] You: what about language, swear zones? [16:38] USA Brody: I think I do not understand these issues well enough as they pertain to SL. [16:38] Blaise Syaka: interesting concept - how would a swear zone work? [16:39] You: SL is in essense text chat, its im, limited range of emotion/vocal expression [16:39] You: what complexity does voice bring to play [16:39] You: right now you police yourself in sensitive areas [16:39] You: same way you don't go naked, you don't swear in the help island [16:40] Blaise Syaka: I'm wih you... I see how this works now. [16:40] USA Brody: okay, what type of research do we need to do> [16:40] USA Brody: ? [16:40] You: so if voice is just an extension of im, then its already incorporated [16:40] You: chat lines and obhjectionable content? [16:41] Blaise Syaka: censorship /s voice /s "virtual reality" [16:41] You: litigation on crossed lines? [16:41] Blaise Syaka: that will get us started [16:41] You: or public blasphemy, swearing laws in states etc [16:41] Gaigin Helios: Excuse me are you part of Cyber One course [16:41] You: yes gaigin [16:41] USA Brody: yes [16:42] Gaigin Helios: There are supposed to be videos available here...do you know where? [16:42] You: across the 1st bridge [16:42] Gaigin Helios: Okay thanks.. [16:42] Lola Machin: tks... [16:42] You: k, g'luck [16:43] Gaigin Helios: Thks sounds like a fun course :) [16:43] You: u think theres research there USA? [16:43] You: what law is in place to protect minors from calling a sex-line? [16:43] You: or the liability of the service-operator? [16:44] USA Brody: well, can you make phone calls in SL? [16:44] You: no idea, why is voice chat in SL not just a phone call tho'? [16:44] You: would linden have to implement e911? [16:45] USA Brody: okay, well I am trying to frame this question as it may relate to our SL experience. [16:45] You: why is voice chat in SL not just another skype? [16:45] USA Brody: sure. I see now. [16:45] You: its the freedom of expression questiopn [16:46] Blaise Syaka: I think we have to put it in the SL contxt...but integrating realworld application is how we can bring in the legal analysis [16:46] USA Brody is Offline [16:46] USA Brody is Online [16:46] You: eactly [16:46] USA Brody: back from crash 4 [16:46] USA Brody: okay. so where were we. [16:47] USA Brody: Is skype regulated? [16:47] You: blaise just pointed out we must place voice in SL in context with RL equivalents [16:47] Blaise Syaka: do we want to look at integrating the SL terms of service agreement? [16:47] You: in what sense Blaise? [16:47] USA Brody: I think we are forced to incorporate the SL agreement [16:48] Blaise Syaka: For example, looking at how we are supposed to exist here in S. L., and looking at the agreement from the standpointof censorship [16:49] You: oh i see, ToS relate to what you are liabile for and indemnify linden against [16:49] USA Brody is Offline [16:49] USA Brody is Online [16:49] Blaise Syaka: that's it [16:49] You: thats a good topic [16:49] You: thats your research right there USA [16:49] USA Brody: what? [16:49] USA Brody: I was out because I crashed again [16:50] You: i didn't read the ToS, did u? how does it relate to mature content? [16:50] You: the SL Terms of Service [16:50] Blaise Syaka: we can also look at credit card authoriztion and parental control.... and what that could mean for SL if it is brought back to control the minors. [16:51] You: good stuff, cutting and pasting into the wiki [16:52] Blaise Syaka: All righty then... it looks like we ar going to go with choice one? [16:52] USA Brody: okay [16:52] You: i think so [16:52] USA Brody: which is? [16:52] Blaise Syaka: focusing on minors, censorship, and integrating voice? [16:52] You: censorship and mature content [16:52] USA Brody: oh, okay. [16:52] You: 'zakly [16:53] USA Brody: I see on the wiki [16:53] Blaise Syaka: cool! very productive meeting gentleman. [16:53] Mobile Widget is Offline [16:53] Mobile Widget is Online [16:53] USA Brody: so, can someone also send me a transcript of the conversation. [16:54] USA Brody: I crashed like 4 times [16:54] USA Brody: or at least the part important to our group project [16:54] You: i'll stick it up on our public wiki [16:54] USA Brody: nice. [16:54] Blaise Syaka: what is the next step? divvy up the reserch? [16:54] USA Brody: how do we approach the project? [16:54] You: (minus ur email) [16:55] You: look at section 3, 4 and 5 online [16:55] USA Brody: do we break down the legal frameworks [16:55] Blaise Syaka: that is a good start [16:56] You: lets wrap up tonight and move to the wiki and moodle to move forward [16:56] USA Brody: do we pose a specific research question, applicable law, state, federal (US only). Do international laws matter? [16:56] You: i think we are back in 1 hour for a group gene/becca meeting? [16:56] USA Brody: okay. [16:56] Blaise Syaka: sounds good pere [16:56] USA Brody: what time 9 [16:56] USA Brody: ? [16:56] You: yeah [16:56] USA Brody: okay. see you all around then. [16:58] You: will do [16:58] USA Brody: aight. [16:58] Blaise Syaka: if we're meeting at 9pm... then what about the small group that meets at 9? I thought we were not having main group tonight, but I could be wrong. [16:58] Blaise Syaka: if we're meeting at 9pm... then what about the small group that meets at 9? I thought we were not having main group tonight, but I could be wrong. [16:58] USA Brody: not really sure either. I was just going with the flow. [16:59] Yvette Kumsung is Online [16:59] Blaise Syaka: I think the answer is in Rebecca as 1016 email...scanning now [16:59] Yvette Kumsung: omg I'm so sorry [17:00] USA Brody: nice dress! [17:00] Yvette Kumsung: i calculated the time wrong [17:00] Yvette Kumsung: darn darn [17:00] Yvette Kumsung: (hits myself on the head) [17:00] You: chat log is here: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/cyberone/wiki/Thursday_7pm_Chatlog_20061019 [17:01] You: hi yvette [17:01] Yvette Kumsung: is it over already? [17:01] Blaise Syaka: the e-mail says that were suppoed to meet in small group tonight, nothing about main group [17:01] You: sweet [17:01] You: can hang around yvette [17:01] You: blaise and usa just confirmed 9pm isn't mandatory [17:02] Yvette Kumsung: let me get a quick look at the wiki first then :( [17:02] Blaise Syaka: we have actually done what Rebecca wanted = make some key decisions about direction, so we are all set there. [17:02] Yvette Kumsung: great . thanks [17:03] USA Brody: Hmmm ..... [17:03] You: see here too yvette: http://stateofplayacademy.com/mod/wiki/view.php?id=103&page=Project+Description&thankyou=1 [17:03] You: heh, we snowballed usa [17:03] You: next steps are to define topics of voice and censorship that we find interesting [17:03] Yvette Kumsung: It seems like it was a very short session [17:04] You: no, thats an hour up there [17:04] You: bloody wiki scrolls off to the right tho [17:04] You: might have to edit to see full content [17:04] You: otherwise its just line by line [17:05] Hollywood Muldoon: hi dancer [17:05] You: okay, so we r still talking about topics [17:05] Dancer Morris: Hello, Hollywood [17:05] You: next up is goals [17:05] Dancer Morris: took longer than usual to get in tonight -- slow download [17:05] You: audience [17:05] Dancer Morris: Hello, Dana [17:05] Dana3429 Bartlett: howdy [17:05] You: strategy [17:05] Blaise Syaka: okay team - looks like we are getting kicked out [17:05] You: move to autin hall? [17:05] Dancer Morris: we'll move somewhere else if you like [17:05] Blaise Syaka: sure [17:06] Blaise Syaka: we'll go [17:06] You: i think we ran over dance, let us move [17:06] Yvette Kumsung: you know linden is starting a teen SL in Asia [17:07] Yvette Kumsung: It hasn't started yet though [17:07] You: oh, thats interesting [17:07] Yvette Kumsung: I know [17:07] You: different ToS? [17:07] You: censorship? [17:07] Yvette Kumsung: but here I think they could probably do it because [17:07] Yvette Kumsung: most Internet sites already require authoritization [17:07] Yvette Kumsung: using resident registration numbers [17:08] You: thats ur international angle, USA [17:08] Yvette Kumsung: I don't think I could see that happening in the US, could you? [17:09] Yvette Kumsung: People would be furious if they had to use their SS number to create SL accounts [17:09] Yvette Kumsung: But here, it's a very natural thing [17:09] You: interesting, there are no privacy protections in the USA [17:09] You: there are just limits on intrusions [17:09] Yvette Kumsung: I think it's because in the US it's more about the democracy [17:10] You: california is the only one pushing for privacy legislation [17:10] Yvette Kumsung: Or maybe it's because Korea is such an internet crazed country [17:10] You: lets get back on topic [17:11] You: how does the korean angle inpact voice, censorship and freedom of expression [17:11] You: (intersting as it is) [17:11] Yvette Kumsung: I'm not sure what service the Teen SL will involve here, [17:12] Yvette Kumsung: but according to the Web site, one will not be able to speak profanity and so forth [17:12] Yvette Kumsung: and there will be no sex-related contents [17:12] You: ah, i get it, Western Tech companies kowtowing to asian bureaucracies? [17:12] Yvette Kumsung: that seemed very censored to me [17:12] You: google all over again? [17:12] Yvette Kumsung: I was very surprised [17:12] Yvette Kumsung: But they haven't launched the service yet [17:13] Yvette Kumsung: I thought it would be interesting to talk to the Linden guys about it [17:13] Yvette Kumsung: To know why they're taking a different stance(?) on censorship in different cultures [17:14] You: k, i put it up there on the wiki [17:14] USA Brody is Offline [17:14] You: topics are currently : # Terms of Service in SL and personal liability vs Linden indemnity # credit card authoriztion and parental control.... and what that could mean for SL if it is brought back to control the minors. # Freedom of Expression # Swearing [17:14] You: * and Blasphemy. RL laws versus SL ones. * lets say u can "voiceplay" a child, does that belong in a mature area? - intersting tangent on people with odd voices * Western ideals in an international context: Will Sl do a Google China? [17:15] You: is that okay with everyone? [17:15] Yvette Kumsung: I like the RL laws versus SL laws [17:15] Yvette Kumsung: It's very nice to organize [17:16] You: next up is to identify goals, audience, strategy [17:16] You: strategy will involve individual responsibility [17:16] Blaise Syaka: if we go with RL laws - how much scope are we going to give it? US, Korea...Europe? [17:16] USA Brody is Online [17:17] Yvette Kumsung: Do you think we should point out that sexual harassment can also be different in online/offline? [17:17] USA Brody: k, back after crash 5 [17:17] Yvette Kumsung: I think we should take a general outtake [17:18] You: i updated the public wiki USA [17:18] Blaise Syaka: making those distincions can be good, if the legal remedy is different. [17:18] USA Brody: thanks for the update [17:19] You: lets leave the topics for now [17:19] You: whats our goal? [17:19] You: (to pass cyber1) [17:19] Yvette Kumsung: haha yah! [17:19] USA Brody: with an A [17:19] USA Brody: :) [17:20] Yvette Kumsung: I really need an A. I'm terrible with grades [17:20] You: better hope the pass/fail project doesn't work then! [17:20] USA Brody: I don't think it applies to extension [17:20] You: ah, interesting [17:20] USA Brody: but maybe it does.... who knows... [17:21] You: k, back to goals [17:21] Yvette Kumsung: goals= thesis statement? [17:21] Blaise Syaka: Maybe the goal should be to just answer the questions under the Project description [17:21] You: to prevent the kind of censorship we see in google china? [17:21] Mobile Widget is Offline [17:21] You: to promote SL anonymity? [17:21] Yvette Kumsung: I think one of the goals we should take is not to be too serious and go macro [17:22] You: lol @ blaise [17:22] You: k, u talking about a protest Yvette? [17:22] You: a nude-in? [17:22] Yvette Kumsung: lol [17:23] Yvette Kumsung: more like...presenting more potential subjects of discussion [17:23] You: or a mute-in? [17:23] You: keep going [17:24] Mobile Widget is Online [17:24] You: love the wings blaise [17:24] Yvette Kumsung: I just feel, since there is so much potential in this subject and so many things we COULD do, [17:24] Blaise Syaka: I'm a lawyer what do you expect....I'm part vampire [17:25] Yvette Kumsung: but we should perhaps ignore a lot of the other potential things [17:25] Yvette Kumsung: ha, Blaise [17:26] You: k, we'll lets move the conversation to moodle and the wiki, i think we've started well on 3/5 project components [17:26] You: and i gotta go watch baseball [17:26] Yvette Kumsung: okay [17:26] USA Brody: k, go mets [17:26] You: and get drunk [17:26] USA Brody: nice [17:26] USA Brody: JK on the mets [17:26] USA Brody: I don't watch baseball [17:27] You: and try and explain this entire conversation to my wife [17:27] USA Brody: lol [17:27] Yvette Kumsung: oh that's hard [17:27] USA Brody: while you're drunk [17:27] You: who has only ever seen SL once and it was when Yvette took her top off in the pod in the sandbox [17:27] USA Brody: that would be great [17:27] Yvette Kumsung: do other things while you're drunk [17:27] USA Brody: lol [17:27] Yvette Kumsung: I'm so sorry that happened [17:27] You: i'm still paying for that one [17:27] USA Brody: :? [17:28] You: nudity, she thinks SL is porn [17:28] Yvette Kumsung: I've been busy making new outfits [17:28] Yvette Kumsung: Tell her I'm a designer [17:28] You: will do [17:28] Yvette Kumsung: BTW this is my latest [17:29] Yvette Kumsung: Becca and I were approached by this lesbian yesterday who claimed to be a Muslim it was sort of scary [17:29] Yvette Kumsung: she said she was turned on by female professors [17:29] You: scvary [17:29] Yvette Kumsung: yes [17:30] Blaise Syaka: OK team.. next steps? [17:30] You: anyway, i gotta run, u guys enjoy, the entire chat, including this, is on the public wiki [17:30] Yvette Kumsung: thanks for everything