10-1meeting

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[14:43] Aphilo Aarde: hELLO [14:43] Aphilo Aarde: I'm working on a computer problem for some friends, but am wondering where people are meeting, for when I'm done with this. [14:43] Aphilo Aarde: Would you happen to know? [14:44] You: meeting for the at-large discussion? [14:44] Aphilo Aarde: yes. [14:44] You: here, i figure. doesn't look like much of a turnout. [14:45] Aphilo Aarde: ok. I may look over the bridge, as well. [14:45] You: cool [14:45] Aphilo Aarde: see you later [14:45] You: cya [14:50] You: hi [14:50] Pere Utu: hello [14:56] You: hi there [14:57] You: hi [14:57] Steve Lapointe: Hello [14:57] Lou Liebknecht: Hi [14:57] You: hey [14:57] You: you aall here for the cyberone discussion? [14:58] Steve Lapointe: I am [14:58] Lou Liebknecht: What time does it begin [14:58] You: supposed to be anytime after 5:30 [14:58] You: est [14:58] You: not sl time [14:58] Lou Liebknecht: OK [14:58] You: there are some more folks outside. im gonna go see them. [14:59] Aphilo Aarde: I see. [14:59] You: hi! [14:59] Aphilo Aarde: Hi. [14:59] Aphilo Aarde: Geoff [14:59] Pere Utu: 'lo again geoff [14:59] Aphilo Aarde: Are you an at large participant? [14:59] You: there are some folks in Austin Hall too. [14:59] You: yes i am [15:00] Aphilo Aarde: Would you like to go there? [15:00] You: so long as we are all together! [15:00] Aphilo Aarde: or talk here? are they at large participants? [15:00] You: dunno for sure [15:00] Aphilo Aarde: Shall we go there? [15:00] You: one of them might be an enrolled [15:00] You: yes, lets [15:00] Aphilo Aarde: Are they talking about the course? [15:01] You: so lou, what's your story? [15:02] Aphilo Aarde: Greetings. [15:02] Lou Liebknecht: I'm a professor at USF and want to learn more about developing courses in SL [15:02] Aphilo Aarde: Are you at large participants? [15:02] Lou Liebknecht: Yes [15:02] You: very cool. what subject matter? [15:02] Steve Lapointe: I am an extension student [15:02] Lou Liebknecht: Criminology [15:02] Aphilo Aarde: I'm also interested in using SL relating to a course, and perahps studying it. [15:02] You: marvelous [15:03] Lou Liebknecht: What are you here for Mary [15:03] You: well, once we get a group together we might as well introduce ourselves [15:03] Aphilo Aarde: What benefits do you see using it for a criminology course, Lou? [15:03] Aphilo Aarde: Hi Mary. [15:03] Mary Sol: Hi I am a college professor interested in using SL to deliver courses. So I am here to learn [15:04] Mary Sol: hello [15:04] Lou Liebknecht: The possibility of developing international courses [15:04] Mary Sol: Yes, that is one of the features that I find most attractive [15:04] Aphilo Aarde: The possibilities are endless. [15:04] Mary Sol: I really a beginner but from I have seen you are right [15:05] Aphilo Aarde: I've been showing it to students in a sociology course I've been teaching, and asking them to think through questions they might have about SL and then how they might ask them. [15:06] You: so lets see: lou is a prof, mary is a prof, i teach at university, and aphilo too! [15:06] Hart Zhao: hi everyone.. [15:06] Aphilo Aarde: Are any of you familiar with studies that people have made of SL? I've read Castonova's paper. [15:06] You: is that the norrath paaper? [15:06] Mary Sol: No I have not seen anything yer [15:06] Aphilo Aarde: Yes, it looks like we're all instructors. [15:06] Aphilo Aarde: Hello Hart. [15:06] You: and steve! [15:07] Hart Zhao: is there an at-large group in SL for us to join? [15:07] Steve Lapointe: Hello [15:07] Lou Liebknecht: SLED [15:07] Aphilo Aarde: Perhaps we might start one. [15:07] You: there was discussion of starting one at last week's meeting. [15:07] You: there is also a new blog [15:08] Hart Zhao: I would like to organise a project.. [15:08] You: what do you have in mind? [15:08] Lou Liebknecht: Do you all belong to the SL Educators Group? [15:08] You: no. [15:08] Mary Sol: No [15:08] You: should we? [15:09] Mary Sol: What are the advantages of joining the ed group [15:09] Aphilo Aarde: I'm in the process of starting one as we type, but it will cost $100L [15:09] Lou Liebknecht: Try it, I get about 10 - 15 emails a day on various topics related to our needs. [15:09] You: to start of join? [15:09] You: er...or. to start or join? [15:10] Mary Sol: how can I join the ed group [15:10] Lou Liebknecht: Find them under groups and just join, its free [15:11] You: there is indeed an at large group! [15:11] You: search for cyberone [15:12] You: steve, how do you feel the class is going as an extension student? [15:12] Mary Sol: Im so new I sure how to judge whether we want to start of a new group as propopsed or just join the existing group. Pelase explain [15:12] Aphilo Aarde: Yes, I just joined - edit - groups - search [15:12] Lou Liebknecht: I just joined the cyberone at large group. Find them under search then groups [15:13] Aphilo Aarde: There are only 6 or so members, and it's a helpful way to stay in touch and share ideas. [15:13] Steve Lapointe: I think it is going pretty well - New technology for a lot of folks [15:13] Steve Lapointe: I'm an extension student - I'll just sit back and listen _ Reading Castranova right now [15:13] You: its a fun read [15:14] You: quite the ppotential to change the way we think about vitual economies [15:14] You: has everyone read that paper? [15:14] Mary Sol: No [15:14] Steve Lapointe: I'm on page 28 [15:15] Lou Liebknecht: Where is the paper? [15:15] You: in brief it is from an economist's perspective. the author discussed the production of desirable virtual goods and the economy that forms around them [15:15] You: the paper can be reached on the course Wiki, i believe [15:15] Lou Liebknecht: Oh [15:16] You: has anyone read the first weeks materials--Benkler and appiah and that short declaration of cyber indeoendence? [15:16] Lou Liebknecht: Not yet [15:17] Aphilo Aarde: Castonova also characterizes some aspects of what's novel about virtual worlds, which Prof. Nesson also talked about in an interesting online video lecture. [15:17] Mary Sol: It appears I very far behind, sorry I can't contribute this time. [15:17] Steve Lapointe: Benkler is downloadable for free [15:17] Lou Liebknecht: Is there a round table here where we could all sit face to face? [15:18] You: not that i know of, lou, but you can use the zoom feature to capture everyone in one screen [15:18] Aphilo Aarde: Each author is characterizing in the first weeks reading a view of some significant changes due to a changing world, esp. vis-a-vis personal computers and cyberspace. [15:18] Lou Liebknecht: Havent learned to do thatyet [15:19] You: right, so i guess my ifirst question is....do we buy the argument? [15:19] Aphilo Aarde: We could go outside to the amphitheater and sit more in a circle because there' s a chair in the center. [15:19] Lou Liebknecht: OK [15:20] You: let's go [15:20] Aphilo Aarde: Barlow's argument in Declaration of Independence of Cyberspace - ok [15:22] Aphilo Aarde: Barlow's argument in Declaration of Independence of Cyberspace is that cyberspace can and shouldn't be regulated, that it's of a fundamentally different order than what came before. [15:22] You: in fact, he seems to think that any regulation will fail. [15:23] Aphilo Aarde: He reifies (thingifies) what seems to be a rhetorical space, a space of ideas. [15:23] Aphilo Aarde: Yes. [15:23] Mary Sol: I think that we are usually better off , if there are some condtions. For example we have a code we must follow to be here. [15:23] Aphilo Aarde: Yet this course is partly about what happens when ideas (virtual 'things'?) become real, it seems to me. [15:24] You: good topic, mary [15:24] You: the code that we use does indeed regulate what we can do [15:24] You: but what is interesting is that we have no input into the creation of the fundamental SL code. [15:24] Lou Liebknecht: Which is what? [15:25] Aphilo Aarde: Yes, Mary. In a related q, I wonder what influence the Harvard Law School's presence in SL will have in contributing to a code / system of law in SL. [15:25] Lou Liebknecht: What code are you talking about? [15:26] You: lou, i'm referring to the code that makes this meeting possible; the code that allows for the creation of humanoid forms to chat back and forth and hold a meeting in SL. [15:26] Aphilo Aarde: That may change as need arises, and virtual 'dictatorship' (benevolent), gives way to the growth of a different kind of social 'reality.' [15:26] You: i distinguish that from the code we CAN write in order to create a chair, a house or a pair of sunclasses [15:26] Lou Liebknecht: I thought those were the proprietary rights of the developers [15:27] You: yes, but they need not be. [15:27] Aphilo Aarde: Is there a SL programming language? [15:27] You: well, im not a comp sci person, but when you see avatars building objects, they are essentially speaking in code. [15:27] Mary Sol: I don't know how productive this "tool" will be if it is not used in a way that is parallel to what Universities already do: educate? sociallize? [15:28] Aphilo Aarde: share knowledge? shape a kind of truth? [15:28] You: hmm, what if we all held our office hours in SL. [15:29] You: would more/fewer students come and ask us questions? [15:29] Hart Zhao: ah I see people have member above their name.. [15:30] Aphilo Aarde: Unfortunately have tickets for Oedipus the King starting at 7 EST, but am very interested in carrying on this conversation. [15:30] Mary Sol: Well I certainily could not get any fewer than I do now. [15:30] Mary Sol: fewer students I meant [15:31] Aphilo Aarde: Perhaps we can use our group to communicate. Is our group associated with an email list? Does anyone know? [15:31] You: i dont know [15:31] You: but we can use the Wiki [15:31] Mary Sol: I dont either [15:32] Hart Zhao: am stil getting use to the wiki.. [15:32] You: heres a basic question: what do we want to do with thiis group? [15:32] Aphilo Aarde: Yes, let's use the wiki, but let's also meet again soon, if we can. [15:33] Lou Liebknecht: The owner of this group is Ellie Brewster. I dont know the protocol but is this the person to formalize regular meeting, etc.? [15:33] Aphilo Aarde: I would like to discuss ideas related to the readings, but better in person. I'm also interested in sharing ideas about teaching in SL. I also have some practical questions, which many people may have ideas about. [15:34] Aphilo Aarde: in 'avatar' [15:34] You: i too would like to learn more about the educational opportunities [15:34] You: aand also discuss the subject matter in the readings [15:35] Mary Sol: I would also like to meet again, for the conversation is intresting , but I am also placing myself in my students place when they participate. [15:35] Hart Zhao: i have a master controller access framework i think that can be made into a nice little business and is very relevant to the course and the course work [15:35] Aphilo Aarde: I wonder if anyone knows whether it's possible to save this dialogue. [15:36] Hart Zhao: i want to propose a discussion of possbile creating an endeavour for an open license to the cyberone commons. [15:36] You: i'd be interested in hearing more about that hart [15:37] Aphilo Aarde: ONe question I'd like to ask is What aspects of nonmarket information production vis-a-vis Benkler will take off here uniquely, within Linden Labs' SL? [15:37] Aphilo Aarde: I would too, Hart. [15:37] Hart Zhao: Master Controller Access Framework - and the point and fruit of the discussion being 'the master of the access and control of ones identity.. - Authorising that access and the way that is done is the experiment that SL seems to lean itself to in some ma [15:37] Steve Lapointe: Copy and paste to a text file.. [15:37] Aphilo Aarde: thanks [15:38] Aphilo Aarde: I have to go. It's very nice to chat. See you later. [15:38] Lou Liebknecht: Would that copy the entire history? [15:38] You: by aphilo. thanks for coming. hope to see you soon [15:39] Hart Zhao: to say it simply authorising an avatar to act specifically on ones behest - with the interest in privacy and liberty [15:39] Aphilo Aarde: bye. [15:39] Hart Zhao: bye [15:39] Mary Sol: bye [15:39] Lou Liebknecht: Bye [15:39] Hart Zhao: when is the next meeting ? [15:40] Hart Zhao: Geoff you can copyy and paste the transcript of this into an inventory info card and send it to me in SL [15:40] You: if you instruct me on how to do that, I will. [15:40] Hart Zhao: open inventory - select create new note [15:42] Hart Zhao: and open history select it all ctrl+a then paste it ctrl +V into the new note [15:42] Hart Zhao: then close that note and drag it on to me.. [15:42] Hart Zhao: it would appear under notecards in your inventory [15:43] Hart Zhao: greetings [15:43] ronski Braess: howdy [15:43] Hart Zhao accepted your inventory offer. [15:43] You: hi [15:43] Hart Zhao: thanks [15:44] You: i'll see if i can add the discussion to the wiki. [15:45] Hart Zhao: how did you list your name on the wiki as a participant? [15:45] You: My real name and my SL name. [15:46] Hart Zhao: i thought that was done at the same time.. [15:46] Hart Zhao: both [15:46] You: on the wiki? [15:46] Hart Zhao: yes [15:47] You: you have to register and then you can add anything you want. [15:47] Hart Zhao: am also wondering what is motivating you to be involved... [15:47] Hart Zhao: i have registed.. hmmm - i will go play with it [15:48] You: im teaching a class on the freedom of speech next semester and want to devote a significant portion to a study of digital democracy. [15:48] Hart Zhao: ah... that is what the MCAF is all about.. [15:49] Hart Zhao: the ability to at least see and have some transparency over ones identity.. [15:49] You: mcaf? [15:49] Hart Zhao: Master Controller Access Framework.. [15:49] You: oic. im still not sure i understand what that is all about [15:50] Pere Utu: food time, back later guys [15:50] You: bon appetite [15:50] Pere Utu: ty [15:50] Hart Zhao: the idea of a smartocracy.. is qutie goood [15:51] You: i think this sort of technology will revolutionize government and maarkets as we know them. [15:51] You: Benckler is dead-on. [15:51] You shout: Hi dagmar! [15:52] Dagmar Kojishi: Hi! I was just noticing that we have the same shirt designer. [smile] [15:52] Hart Zhao: mapping privacy and privacy reputation as a basic building block - is what the MCAF is all about [15:52] You: im a big fan! [15:52] Hart Zhao: hi [15:52] You: how so? [15:52] Dagmar Kojishi: Hello. I hope I'm not intruding? [15:52] You: not at all. this is an open meeting [15:53] Hart Zhao: the ability to have awareness about ones identity as a fundametal to democracy.. [15:54] You: you have to know you are uniiique before you have the desire to be active in self-government? [15:55] Hart Zhao: uniqueness is seen through the individuals ability to vote [15:55] You: so then, how does mcaf encourage that? [15:56] Hart Zhao: with awareness comes knowledge about what affects that awareness. [15:57] Hart Zhao: and the choice of the masses to act as a more unified body to self-regulate the future market place [15:58] You: it sounds very interesting; but there is much i do not yet know. [15:58] Hart Zhao: am working on writing this up... am hoping to have something useful in the next couple of weeks,, [15:58] You: what do you do in RL, hart? [15:59] Hart Zhao: would like to organise this at-large into a mini smartocracy.. [15:59] You: the philosopher kings rule at last, eh? [15:59] Hart Zhao: lol [16:00] You: alright, i need to ship out. but this has been great. I'll post the discussion on the Wiki as well as an invitation for another at-large meeting. [16:01] Hart Zhao: Next - sunday with a mid week organisational meeting to get a little more organised.. [16:01] Hart Zhao: ? [16:01] You: Indeed. [16:01] You: if not something informal before then [16:01] Hart Zhao: how about a wednesday meeting.. ? [16:02] You: I can do late, post ten p.m. est [16:02] You: but i have to advise the mock trial team before then [16:02] Hart Zhao: that is 3:00 am my time.. [16:02] You: yikes! [16:02] You: so, the afternoon time used today was perfect? [16:02] Hart Zhao: yes.. [16:03] You: well then perhaps we should stick with this time one week from today and then revisit the timing issue. [16:04] You: hey trinity! [16:04] Hart Zhao: that sounds good - [16:04] You: excellent. I'll post to the wiki tonight or tomorrow. [16:04] Hart Zhao: nice halo by the way..