[14:43] Aphilo Aarde: hELLO
[14:43] Aphilo Aarde: I'm working on a computer problem for some friends, but am wondering where people are meeting, for when I'm done with this.
[14:43] Aphilo Aarde: Would you happen to know?
[14:44] You: meeting for the at-large discussion?
[14:44] Aphilo Aarde: yes.
[14:44] You: here, i figure. doesn't look like much of a turnout.
[14:45] Aphilo Aarde: ok. I may look over the bridge, as well.
[14:45] You: cool
[14:45] Aphilo Aarde: see you later
[14:45] You: cya
[14:50] You: hi
[14:50] Pere Utu: hello
[14:56] You: hi there
[14:57] You: hi
[14:57] Steve Lapointe: Hello
[14:57] Lou Liebknecht: Hi
[14:57] You: hey
[14:57] You: you aall here for the cyberone discussion?
[14:58] Steve Lapointe: I am
[14:58] Lou Liebknecht: What time does it begin
[14:58] You: supposed to be anytime after 5:30
[14:58] You: est
[14:58] You: not sl time
[14:58] Lou Liebknecht: OK
[14:58] You: there are some more folks outside. im gonna go see them.
[14:59] Aphilo Aarde: I see.
[14:59] You: hi!
[14:59] Aphilo Aarde: Hi.
[14:59] Aphilo Aarde: Geoff
[14:59] Pere Utu: 'lo again geoff
[14:59] Aphilo Aarde: Are you an at large participant?
[14:59] You: there are some folks in Austin Hall too.
[14:59] You: yes i am
[15:00] Aphilo Aarde: Would you like to go there?
[15:00] You: so long as we are all together!
[15:00] Aphilo Aarde: or talk here? are they at large participants?
[15:00] You: dunno for sure
[15:00] Aphilo Aarde: Shall we go there?
[15:00] You: one of them might be an enrolled
[15:00] You: yes, lets
[15:00] Aphilo Aarde: Are they talking about the course?
[15:01] You: so lou, what's your story?
[15:02] Aphilo Aarde: Greetings.
[15:02] Lou Liebknecht: I'm a professor at USF and want to learn more about developing courses in SL
[15:02] Aphilo Aarde: Are you at large participants?
[15:02] Lou Liebknecht: Yes
[15:02] You: very cool. what subject matter?
[15:02] Steve Lapointe: I am an extension student
[15:02] Lou Liebknecht: Criminology
[15:02] Aphilo Aarde: I'm also interested in using SL relating to a course, and perahps studying it.
[15:02] You: marvelous
[15:03] Lou Liebknecht: What are you here for Mary
[15:03] You: well, once we get a group together we might as well introduce ourselves
[15:03] Aphilo Aarde: What benefits do you see using it for a criminology course, Lou?
[15:03] Aphilo Aarde: Hi Mary.
[15:03] Mary Sol: Hi I am a college professor interested in using SL to deliver courses. So I am here to learn
[15:04] Mary Sol: hello
[15:04] Lou Liebknecht: The possibility of developing international courses
[15:04] Mary Sol: Yes, that is one of the features that I find most attractive
[15:04] Aphilo Aarde: The possibilities are endless.
[15:04] Mary Sol: I really a beginner but from I have seen you are right
[15:05] Aphilo Aarde: I've been showing it to students in a sociology course I've been teaching, and asking them to think through questions they might have about SL and then how they might ask them.
[15:06] You: so lets see: lou is a prof, mary is a prof, i teach at university, and aphilo too!
[15:06] Hart Zhao: hi everyone..
[15:06] Aphilo Aarde: Are any of you familiar with studies that people have made of SL? I've read Castonova's paper.
[15:06] You: is that the norrath paaper?
[15:06] Mary Sol: No I have not seen anything yer
[15:06] Aphilo Aarde: Yes, it looks like we're all instructors.
[15:06] Aphilo Aarde: Hello Hart.
[15:06] You: and steve!
[15:07] Hart Zhao: is there an at-large group in SL for us to join?
[15:07] Steve Lapointe: Hello
[15:07] Lou Liebknecht: SLED
[15:07] Aphilo Aarde: Perhaps we might start one.
[15:07] You: there was discussion of starting one at last week's meeting.
[15:07] You: there is also a new blog
[15:08] Hart Zhao: I would like to organise a project..
[15:08] You: what do you have in mind?
[15:08] Lou Liebknecht: Do you all belong to the SL Educators Group?
[15:08] You: no.
[15:08] Mary Sol: No
[15:08] You: should we?
[15:09] Mary Sol: What are the advantages of joining the ed group
[15:09] Aphilo Aarde: I'm in the process of starting one as we type, but it will cost $100L
[15:09] Lou Liebknecht: Try it, I get about 10 - 15 emails a day on various topics related to our needs.
[15:09] You: to start of join?
[15:09] You: er...or. to start or join?
[15:10] Mary Sol: how can I join the ed group
[15:10] Lou Liebknecht: Find them under groups and just join, its free
[15:11] You: there is indeed an at large group!
[15:11] You: search for cyberone
[15:12] You: steve, how do you feel the class is going as an extension student?
[15:12] Mary Sol: Im so new I sure how to judge whether we want to start of a new group as propopsed or just join the existing group. Pelase explain
[15:12] Aphilo Aarde: Yes, I just joined - edit - groups - search
[15:12] Lou Liebknecht: I just joined the cyberone at large group. Find them under search then groups
[15:13] Aphilo Aarde: There are only 6 or so members, and it's a helpful way to stay in touch and share ideas.
[15:13] Steve Lapointe: I think it is going pretty well - New technology for a lot of folks
[15:13] Steve Lapointe: I'm an extension student - I'll just sit back and listen _ Reading Castranova right now
[15:13] You: its a fun read
[15:14] You: quite the ppotential to change the way we think about vitual economies
[15:14] You: has everyone read that paper?
[15:14] Mary Sol: No
[15:14] Steve Lapointe: I'm on page 28
[15:15] Lou Liebknecht: Where is the paper?
[15:15] You: in brief it is from an economist's perspective. the author discussed the production of desirable virtual goods and the economy that forms around them
[15:15] You: the paper can be reached on the course Wiki, i believe
[15:15] Lou Liebknecht: Oh
[15:16] You: has anyone read the first weeks materials--Benkler and appiah and that short declaration of cyber indeoendence?
[15:16] Lou Liebknecht: Not yet
[15:17] Aphilo Aarde: Castonova also characterizes some aspects of what's novel about virtual worlds, which Prof. Nesson also talked about in an interesting online video lecture.
[15:17] Mary Sol: It appears I very far behind, sorry I can't contribute this time.
[15:17] Steve Lapointe: Benkler is downloadable for free
[15:17] Lou Liebknecht: Is there a round table here where we could all sit face to face?
[15:18] You: not that i know of, lou, but you can use the zoom feature to capture everyone in one screen
[15:18] Aphilo Aarde: Each author is characterizing in the first weeks reading a view of some significant changes due to a changing world, esp. vis-a-vis personal computers and cyberspace.
[15:18] Lou Liebknecht: Havent learned to do thatyet
[15:19] You: right, so i guess my ifirst question is....do we buy the argument?
[15:19] Aphilo Aarde: We could go outside to the amphitheater and sit more in a circle because there' s a chair in the center.
[15:19] Lou Liebknecht: OK
[15:20] You: let's go
[15:20] Aphilo Aarde: Barlow's argument in Declaration of Independence of Cyberspace - ok
[15:22] Aphilo Aarde: Barlow's argument in Declaration of Independence of Cyberspace is that cyberspace can and shouldn't be regulated, that it's of a fundamentally different order than what came before.
[15:22] You: in fact, he seems to think that any regulation will fail.
[15:23] Aphilo Aarde: He reifies (thingifies) what seems to be a rhetorical space, a space of ideas.
[15:23] Aphilo Aarde: Yes.
[15:23] Mary Sol: I think that we are usually better off , if there are some condtions. For example we have a code we must follow to be here.
[15:23] Aphilo Aarde: Yet this course is partly about what happens when ideas (virtual 'things'?) become real, it seems to me.
[15:24] You: good topic, mary
[15:24] You: the code that we use does indeed regulate what we can do
[15:24] You: but what is interesting is that we have no input into the creation of the fundamental SL code.
[15:24] Lou Liebknecht: Which is what?
[15:25] Aphilo Aarde: Yes, Mary. In a related q, I wonder what influence the Harvard Law School's presence in SL will have in contributing to a code / system of law in SL.
[15:25] Lou Liebknecht: What code are you talking about?
[15:26] You: lou, i'm referring to the code that makes this meeting possible; the code that allows for the creation of humanoid forms to chat back and forth and hold a meeting in SL.
[15:26] Aphilo Aarde: That may change as need arises, and virtual 'dictatorship' (benevolent), gives way to the growth of a different kind of social 'reality.'
[15:26] You: i distinguish that from the code we CAN write in order to create a chair, a house or a pair of sunclasses
[15:26] Lou Liebknecht: I thought those were the proprietary rights of the developers
[15:27] You: yes, but they need not be.
[15:27] Aphilo Aarde: Is there a SL programming language?
[15:27] You: well, im not a comp sci person, but when you see avatars building objects, they are essentially speaking in code.
[15:27] Mary Sol: I don't know how productive this "tool" will be if it is not used in a way that is parallel to what Universities already do: educate? sociallize?
[15:28] Aphilo Aarde: share knowledge? shape a kind of truth?
[15:28] You: hmm, what if we all held our office hours in SL.
[15:29] You: would more/fewer students come and ask us questions?
[15:29] Hart Zhao: ah I see people have member above their name..
[15:30] Aphilo Aarde: Unfortunately have tickets for Oedipus the King starting at 7 EST, but am very interested in carrying on this conversation.
[15:30] Mary Sol: Well I certainily could not get any fewer than I do now.
[15:30] Mary Sol: fewer students I meant
[15:31] Aphilo Aarde: Perhaps we can use our group to communicate. Is our group associated with an email list? Does anyone know?
[15:31] You: i dont know
[15:31] You: but we can use the Wiki
[15:31] Mary Sol: I dont either
[15:32] Hart Zhao: am stil getting use to the wiki..
[15:32] You: heres a basic question: what do we want to do with thiis group?
[15:32] Aphilo Aarde: Yes, let's use the wiki, but let's also meet again soon, if we can.
[15:33] Lou Liebknecht: The owner of this group is Ellie Brewster. I dont know the protocol but is this the person to formalize regular meeting, etc.?
[15:33] Aphilo Aarde: I would like to discuss ideas related to the readings, but better in person. I'm also interested in sharing ideas about teaching in SL. I also have some practical questions, which many people may have ideas about.
[15:34] Aphilo Aarde: in 'avatar'
[15:34] You: i too would like to learn more about the educational opportunities
[15:34] You: aand also discuss the subject matter in the readings
[15:35] Mary Sol: I would also like to meet again, for the conversation is intresting , but I am also placing myself in my students place when they participate.
[15:35] Hart Zhao: i have a master controller access framework i think that can be made into a nice little business and is very relevant to the course and the course work
[15:35] Aphilo Aarde: I wonder if anyone knows whether it's possible to save this dialogue.
[15:36] Hart Zhao: i want to propose a discussion of possbile creating an endeavour for an open license to the cyberone commons.
[15:36] You: i'd be interested in hearing more about that hart
[15:37] Aphilo Aarde: ONe question I'd like to ask is What aspects of nonmarket information production vis-a-vis Benkler will take off here uniquely, within Linden Labs' SL?
[15:37] Aphilo Aarde: I would too, Hart.
[15:37] Hart Zhao: Master Controller Access Framework - and the point and fruit of the discussion being 'the master of the access and control of ones identity.. - Authorising that access and the way that is done is the experiment that SL seems to lean itself to in some ma
[15:37] Steve Lapointe: Copy and paste to a text file..
[15:37] Aphilo Aarde: thanks
[15:38] Aphilo Aarde: I have to go. It's very nice to chat. See you later.
[15:38] Lou Liebknecht: Would that copy the entire history?
[15:38] You: by aphilo. thanks for coming. hope to see you soon
[15:39] Hart Zhao: to say it simply authorising an avatar to act specifically on ones behest - with the interest in privacy and liberty
[15:39] Aphilo Aarde: bye.
[15:39] Hart Zhao: bye
[15:39] Mary Sol: bye
[15:39] Lou Liebknecht: Bye
[15:39] Hart Zhao: when is the next meeting ?
[15:40] Hart Zhao: Geoff you can copyy and paste the transcript of this into an inventory info card and send it to me in SL
[15:40] You: if you instruct me on how to do that, I will.
[15:40] Hart Zhao: open inventory - select create new note
[15:42] Hart Zhao: and open history select it all ctrl+a then paste it ctrl +V into the new note
[15:42] Hart Zhao: then close that note and drag it on to me..
[15:42] Hart Zhao: it would appear under notecards in your inventory
[15:43] Hart Zhao: greetings
[15:43] ronski Braess: howdy
[15:43] Hart Zhao accepted your inventory offer.
[15:43] You: hi
[15:43] Hart Zhao: thanks
[15:44] You: i'll see if i can add the discussion to the wiki.
[15:45] Hart Zhao: how did you list your name on the wiki as a participant?
[15:45] You: My real name and my SL name.
[15:46] Hart Zhao: i thought that was done at the same time..
[15:46] Hart Zhao: both
[15:46] You: on the wiki?
[15:46] Hart Zhao: yes
[15:47] You: you have to register and then you can add anything you want.
[15:47] Hart Zhao: am also wondering what is motivating you to be involved...
[15:47] Hart Zhao: i have registed.. hmmm - i will go play with it
[15:48] You: im teaching a class on the freedom of speech next semester and want to devote a significant portion to a study of digital democracy.
[15:48] Hart Zhao: ah... that is what the MCAF is all about..
[15:49] Hart Zhao: the ability to at least see and have some transparency over ones identity..
[15:49] You: mcaf?
[15:49] Hart Zhao: Master Controller Access Framework..
[15:49] You: oic. im still not sure i understand what that is all about
[15:50] Pere Utu: food time, back later guys
[15:50] You: bon appetite
[15:50] Pere Utu: ty
[15:50] Hart Zhao: the idea of a smartocracy.. is qutie goood
[15:51] You: i think this sort of technology will revolutionize government and maarkets as we know them.
[15:51] You: Benckler is dead-on.
[15:51] You shout: Hi dagmar!
[15:52] Dagmar Kojishi: Hi! I was just noticing that we have the same shirt designer. [smile]
[15:52] Hart Zhao: mapping privacy and privacy reputation as a basic building block - is what the MCAF is all about
[15:52] You: im a big fan!
[15:52] Hart Zhao: hi
[15:52] You: how so?
[15:52] Dagmar Kojishi: Hello. I hope I'm not intruding?
[15:52] You: not at all. this is an open meeting
[15:53] Hart Zhao: the ability to have awareness about ones identity as a fundametal to democracy..
[15:54] You: you have to know you are uniiique before you have the desire to be active in self-government?
[15:55] Hart Zhao: uniqueness is seen through the individuals ability to vote
[15:55] You: so then, how does mcaf encourage that?
[15:56] Hart Zhao: with awareness comes knowledge about what affects that awareness.
[15:57] Hart Zhao: and the choice of the masses to act as a more unified body to self-regulate the future market place
[15:58] You: it sounds very interesting; but there is much i do not yet know.
[15:58] Hart Zhao: am working on writing this up... am hoping to have something useful in the next couple of weeks,,
[15:58] You: what do you do in RL, hart?
[15:59] Hart Zhao: would like to organise this at-large into a mini smartocracy..
[15:59] You: the philosopher kings rule at last, eh?
[15:59] Hart Zhao: lol
[16:00] You: alright, i need to ship out. but this has been great. I'll post the discussion on the Wiki as well as an invitation for another at-large meeting.
[16:01] Hart Zhao: Next - sunday with a mid week organisational meeting to get a little more organised..
[16:01] Hart Zhao: ?
[16:01] You: Indeed.
[16:01] You: if not something informal before then
[16:01] Hart Zhao: how about a wednesday meeting.. ?
[16:02] You: I can do late, post ten p.m. est
[16:02] You: but i have to advise the mock trial team before then
[16:02] Hart Zhao: that is 3:00 am my time..
[16:02] You: yikes!
[16:02] You: so, the afternoon time used today was perfect?
[16:02] Hart Zhao: yes..
[16:03] You: well then perhaps we should stick with this time one week from today and then revisit the timing issue.
[16:04] You: hey trinity!
[16:04] Hart Zhao: that sounds good -
[16:04] You: excellent. I'll post to the wiki tonight or tomorrow.
[16:04] Hart Zhao: nice halo by the way..