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[14:43] Aphilo Aarde: hELLO

[14:43] Aphilo Aarde: I'm working on a computer problem for some friends, but am wondering where people are meeting, for when I'm done with this.

[14:43] Aphilo Aarde: Would you happen to know?

[14:44] You: meeting for the at-large discussion?

[14:44] Aphilo Aarde: yes.

[14:44] You: here, i figure. doesn't look like much of a turnout.

[14:45] Aphilo Aarde: ok. I may look over the bridge, as well.

[14:45] You: cool

[14:45] Aphilo Aarde: see you later

[14:45] You: cya

[14:50] You: hi

[14:50] Pere Utu: hello

[14:56] You: hi there

[14:57] You: hi

[14:57] Steve Lapointe: Hello

[14:57] Lou Liebknecht: Hi

[14:57] You: hey

[14:57] You: you aall here for the cyberone discussion?

[14:58] Steve Lapointe: I am

[14:58] Lou Liebknecht: What time does it begin

[14:58] You: supposed to be anytime after 5:30

[14:58] You: est

[14:58] You: not sl time

[14:58] Lou Liebknecht: OK

[14:58] You: there are some more folks outside. im gonna go see them.

[14:59] Aphilo Aarde: I see.

[14:59] You: hi!

[14:59] Aphilo Aarde: Hi.

[14:59] Aphilo Aarde: Geoff

[14:59] Pere Utu: 'lo again geoff

[14:59] Aphilo Aarde: Are you an at large participant?

[14:59] You: there are some folks in Austin Hall too.

[14:59] You: yes i am

[15:00] Aphilo Aarde: Would you like to go there?

[15:00] You: so long as we are all together!

[15:00] Aphilo Aarde: or talk here? are they at large participants?

[15:00] You: dunno for sure

[15:00] Aphilo Aarde: Shall we go there?

[15:00] You: one of them might be an enrolled

[15:00] You: yes, lets

[15:00] Aphilo Aarde: Are they talking about the course?

[15:01] You: so lou, what's your story?

[15:02] Aphilo Aarde: Greetings.

[15:02] Lou Liebknecht: I'm a professor at USF and want to learn more about developing courses in SL

[15:02] Aphilo Aarde: Are you at large participants?

[15:02] Lou Liebknecht: Yes

[15:02] You: very cool. what subject matter?

[15:02] Steve Lapointe: I am an extension student

[15:02] Lou Liebknecht: Criminology

[15:02] Aphilo Aarde: I'm also interested in using SL relating to a course, and perahps studying it.

[15:02] You: marvelous

[15:03] Lou Liebknecht: What are you here for Mary

[15:03] You: well, once we get a group together we might as well introduce ourselves

[15:03] Aphilo Aarde: What benefits do you see using it for a criminology course, Lou?

[15:03] Aphilo Aarde: Hi Mary.

[15:03] Mary Sol: Hi I am a college professor interested in using SL to deliver courses. So I am here to learn

[15:04] Mary Sol: hello

[15:04] Lou Liebknecht: The possibility of developing international courses

[15:04] Mary Sol: Yes, that is one of the features that I find most attractive

[15:04] Aphilo Aarde: The possibilities are endless.

[15:04] Mary Sol: I really a beginner but from I have seen you are right

[15:05] Aphilo Aarde: I've been showing it to students in a sociology course I've been teaching, and asking them to think through questions they might have about SL and then how they might ask them.

[15:06] You: so lets see: lou is a prof, mary is a prof, i teach at university, and aphilo too!

[15:06] Hart Zhao: hi everyone..

[15:06] Aphilo Aarde: Are any of you familiar with studies that people have made of SL? I've read Castonova's paper.

[15:06] You: is that the norrath paaper?

[15:06] Mary Sol: No I have not seen anything yer

[15:06] Aphilo Aarde: Yes, it looks like we're all instructors.

[15:06] Aphilo Aarde: Hello Hart.

[15:06] You: and steve!

[15:07] Hart Zhao: is there an at-large group in SL for us to join?

[15:07] Steve Lapointe: Hello

[15:07] Lou Liebknecht: SLED

[15:07] Aphilo Aarde: Perhaps we might start one.

[15:07] You: there was discussion of starting one at last week's meeting.

[15:07] You: there is also a new blog

[15:08] Hart Zhao: I would like to organise a project..

[15:08] You: what do you have in mind?

[15:08] Lou Liebknecht: Do you all belong to the SL Educators Group?

[15:08] You: no.

[15:08] Mary Sol: No

[15:08] You: should we?

[15:09] Mary Sol: What are the advantages of joining the ed group

[15:09] Aphilo Aarde: I'm in the process of starting one as we type, but it will cost $100L

[15:09] Lou Liebknecht: Try it, I get about 10 - 15 emails a day on various topics related to our needs.

[15:09] You: to start of join?

[15:09] You: er...or. to start or join?

[15:10] Mary Sol: how can I join the ed group

[15:10] Lou Liebknecht: Find them under groups and just join, its free

[15:11] You: there is indeed an at large group!

[15:11] You: search for cyberone

[15:12] You: steve, how do you feel the class is going as an extension student?

[15:12] Mary Sol: Im so new I sure how to judge whether we want to start of a new group as propopsed or just join the existing group. Pelase explain

[15:12] Aphilo Aarde: Yes, I just joined - edit - groups - search

[15:12] Lou Liebknecht: I just joined the cyberone at large group. Find them under search then groups

[15:13] Aphilo Aarde: There are only 6 or so members, and it's a helpful way to stay in touch and share ideas.

[15:13] Steve Lapointe: I think it is going pretty well - New technology for a lot of folks

[15:13] Steve Lapointe: I'm an extension student - I'll just sit back and listen _ Reading Castranova right now

[15:13] You: its a fun read

[15:14] You: quite the ppotential to change the way we think about vitual economies

[15:14] You: has everyone read that paper?

[15:14] Mary Sol: No

[15:14] Steve Lapointe: I'm on page 28

[15:15] Lou Liebknecht: Where is the paper?

[15:15] You: in brief it is from an economist's perspective. the author discussed the production of desirable virtual goods and the economy that forms around them

[15:15] You: the paper can be reached on the course Wiki, i believe

[15:15] Lou Liebknecht: Oh

[15:16] You: has anyone read the first weeks materials--Benkler and appiah and that short declaration of cyber indeoendence?

[15:16] Lou Liebknecht: Not yet

[15:17] Aphilo Aarde: Castonova also characterizes some aspects of what's novel about virtual worlds, which Prof. Nesson also talked about in an interesting online video lecture.

[15:17] Mary Sol: It appears I very far behind, sorry I can't contribute this time.

[15:17] Steve Lapointe: Benkler is downloadable for free

[15:17] Lou Liebknecht: Is there a round table here where we could all sit face to face?

[15:18] You: not that i know of, lou, but you can use the zoom feature to capture everyone in one screen

[15:18] Aphilo Aarde: Each author is characterizing in the first weeks reading a view of some significant changes due to a changing world, esp. vis-a-vis personal computers and cyberspace.

[15:18] Lou Liebknecht: Havent learned to do thatyet

[15:19] You: right, so i guess my ifirst question is....do we buy the argument?

[15:19] Aphilo Aarde: We could go outside to the amphitheater and sit more in a circle because there' s a chair in the center.

[15:19] Lou Liebknecht: OK

[15:20] You: let's go

[15:20] Aphilo Aarde: Barlow's argument in Declaration of Independence of Cyberspace - ok

[15:22] Aphilo Aarde: Barlow's argument in Declaration of Independence of Cyberspace is that cyberspace can and shouldn't be regulated, that it's of a fundamentally different order than what came before.

[15:22] You: in fact, he seems to think that any regulation will fail.

[15:23] Aphilo Aarde: He reifies (thingifies) what seems to be a rhetorical space, a space of ideas.

[15:23] Aphilo Aarde: Yes.

[15:23] Mary Sol: I think that we are usually better off , if there are some condtions. For example we have a code we must follow to be here.

[15:23] Aphilo Aarde: Yet this course is partly about what happens when ideas (virtual 'things'?) become real, it seems to me.

[15:24] You: good topic, mary

[15:24] You: the code that we use does indeed regulate what we can do

[15:24] You: but what is interesting is that we have no input into the creation of the fundamental SL code.

[15:24] Lou Liebknecht: Which is what?

[15:25] Aphilo Aarde: Yes, Mary. In a related q, I wonder what influence the Harvard Law School's presence in SL will have in contributing to a code / system of law in SL.

[15:25] Lou Liebknecht: What code are you talking about?

[15:26] You: lou, i'm referring to the code that makes this meeting possible; the code that allows for the creation of humanoid forms to chat back and forth and hold a meeting in SL.

[15:26] Aphilo Aarde: That may change as need arises, and virtual 'dictatorship' (benevolent), gives way to the growth of a different kind of social 'reality.'

[15:26] You: i distinguish that from the code we CAN write in order to create a chair, a house or a pair of sunclasses

[15:26] Lou Liebknecht: I thought those were the proprietary rights of the developers

[15:27] You: yes, but they need not be.

[15:27] Aphilo Aarde: Is there a SL programming language?

[15:27] You: well, im not a comp sci person, but when you see avatars building objects, they are essentially speaking in code.

[15:27] Mary Sol: I don't know how productive this "tool" will be if it is not used in a way that is parallel to what Universities already do: educate? sociallize?

[15:28] Aphilo Aarde: share knowledge? shape a kind of truth?

[15:28] You: hmm, what if we all held our office hours in SL.

[15:29] You: would more/fewer students come and ask us questions?

[15:29] Hart Zhao: ah I see people have member above their name..

[15:30] Aphilo Aarde: Unfortunately have tickets for Oedipus the King starting at 7 EST, but am very interested in carrying on this conversation.

[15:30] Mary Sol: Well I certainily could not get any fewer than I do now.

[15:30] Mary Sol: fewer students I meant

[15:31] Aphilo Aarde: Perhaps we can use our group to communicate. Is our group associated with an email list? Does anyone know?

[15:31] You: i dont know

[15:31] You: but we can use the Wiki

[15:31] Mary Sol: I dont either

[15:32] Hart Zhao: am stil getting use to the wiki..

[15:32] You: heres a basic question: what do we want to do with thiis group?

[15:32] Aphilo Aarde: Yes, let's use the wiki, but let's also meet again soon, if we can.

[15:33] Lou Liebknecht: The owner of this group is Ellie Brewster. I dont know the protocol but is this the person to formalize regular meeting, etc.?

[15:33] Aphilo Aarde: I would like to discuss ideas related to the readings, but better in person. I'm also interested in sharing ideas about teaching in SL. I also have some practical questions, which many people may have ideas about.

[15:34] Aphilo Aarde: in 'avatar'

[15:34] You: i too would like to learn more about the educational opportunities

[15:34] You: aand also discuss the subject matter in the readings

[15:35] Mary Sol: I would also like to meet again, for the conversation is intresting , but I am also placing myself in my students place when they participate.

[15:35] Hart Zhao: i have a master controller access framework i think that can be made into a nice little business and is very relevant to the course and the course work

[15:35] Aphilo Aarde: I wonder if anyone knows whether it's possible to save this dialogue.

[15:36] Hart Zhao: i want to propose a discussion of possbile creating an endeavour for an open license to the cyberone commons.

[15:36] You: i'd be interested in hearing more about that hart

[15:37] Aphilo Aarde: ONe question I'd like to ask is What aspects of nonmarket information production vis-a-vis Benkler will take off here uniquely, within Linden Labs' SL?

[15:37] Aphilo Aarde: I would too, Hart.

[15:37] Hart Zhao: Master Controller Access Framework - and the point and fruit of the discussion being 'the master of the access and control of ones identity.. - Authorising that access and the way that is done is the experiment that SL seems to lean itself to in some ma

[15:37] Steve Lapointe: Copy and paste to a text file..

[15:37] Aphilo Aarde: thanks

[15:38] Aphilo Aarde: I have to go. It's very nice to chat. See you later.

[15:38] Lou Liebknecht: Would that copy the entire history?

[15:38] You: by aphilo. thanks for coming. hope to see you soon

[15:39] Hart Zhao: to say it simply authorising an avatar to act specifically on ones behest - with the interest in privacy and liberty

[15:39] Aphilo Aarde: bye.

[15:39] Hart Zhao: bye

[15:39] Mary Sol: bye

[15:39] Lou Liebknecht: Bye

[15:39] Hart Zhao: when is the next meeting ?

[15:40] Hart Zhao: Geoff you can copyy and paste the transcript of this into an inventory info card and send it to me in SL

[15:40] You: if you instruct me on how to do that, I will.

[15:40] Hart Zhao: open inventory - select create new note

[15:42] Hart Zhao: and open history select it all ctrl+a then paste it ctrl +V into the new note

[15:42] Hart Zhao: then close that note and drag it on to me..

[15:42] Hart Zhao: it would appear under notecards in your inventory

[15:43] Hart Zhao: greetings

[15:43] ronski Braess: howdy

[15:43] Hart Zhao accepted your inventory offer.

[15:43] You: hi

[15:43] Hart Zhao: thanks

[15:44] You: i'll see if i can add the discussion to the wiki.

[15:45] Hart Zhao: how did you list your name on the wiki as a participant?

[15:45] You: My real name and my SL name.

[15:46] Hart Zhao: i thought that was done at the same time..

[15:46] Hart Zhao: both

[15:46] You: on the wiki?

[15:46] Hart Zhao: yes

[15:47] You: you have to register and then you can add anything you want.

[15:47] Hart Zhao: am also wondering what is motivating you to be involved...

[15:47] Hart Zhao: i have registed.. hmmm - i will go play with it

[15:48] You: im teaching a class on the freedom of speech next semester and want to devote a significant portion to a study of digital democracy.

[15:48] Hart Zhao: ah... that is what the MCAF is all about..

[15:49] Hart Zhao: the ability to at least see and have some transparency over ones identity..

[15:49] You: mcaf?

[15:49] Hart Zhao: Master Controller Access Framework..

[15:49] You: oic. im still not sure i understand what that is all about

[15:50] Pere Utu: food time, back later guys

[15:50] You: bon appetite

[15:50] Pere Utu: ty

[15:50] Hart Zhao: the idea of a smartocracy.. is qutie goood

[15:51] You: i think this sort of technology will revolutionize government and maarkets as we know them.

[15:51] You: Benckler is dead-on.

[15:51] You shout: Hi dagmar!

[15:52] Dagmar Kojishi: Hi! I was just noticing that we have the same shirt designer. [smile]

[15:52] Hart Zhao: mapping privacy and privacy reputation as a basic building block - is what the MCAF is all about

[15:52] You: im a big fan!

[15:52] Hart Zhao: hi

[15:52] You: how so?

[15:52] Dagmar Kojishi: Hello. I hope I'm not intruding?

[15:52] You: not at all. this is an open meeting

[15:53] Hart Zhao: the ability to have awareness about ones identity as a fundametal to democracy..

[15:54] You: you have to know you are uniiique before you have the desire to be active in self-government?

[15:55] Hart Zhao: uniqueness is seen through the individuals ability to vote

[15:55] You: so then, how does mcaf encourage that?

[15:56] Hart Zhao: with awareness comes knowledge about what affects that awareness.

[15:57] Hart Zhao: and the choice of the masses to act as a more unified body to self-regulate the future market place

[15:58] You: it sounds very interesting; but there is much i do not yet know.

[15:58] Hart Zhao: am working on writing this up... am hoping to have something useful in the next couple of weeks,,

[15:58] You: what do you do in RL, hart?

[15:59] Hart Zhao: would like to organise this at-large into a mini smartocracy..

[15:59] You: the philosopher kings rule at last, eh?

[15:59] Hart Zhao: lol

[16:00] You: alright, i need to ship out. but this has been great. I'll post the discussion on the Wiki as well as an invitation for another at-large meeting.

[16:01] Hart Zhao: Next - sunday with a mid week organisational meeting to get a little more organised..

[16:01] Hart Zhao: ?

[16:01] You: Indeed.

[16:01] You: if not something informal before then

[16:01] Hart Zhao: how about a wednesday meeting.. ?

[16:02] You: I can do late, post ten p.m. est

[16:02] You: but i have to advise the mock trial team before then

[16:02] Hart Zhao: that is 3:00 am my time..

[16:02] You: yikes!

[16:02] You: so, the afternoon time used today was perfect?

[16:02] Hart Zhao: yes..

[16:03] You: well then perhaps we should stick with this time one week from today and then revisit the timing issue.

[16:04] You: hey trinity!

[16:04] Hart Zhao: that sounds good -

[16:04] You: excellent. I'll post to the wiki tonight or tomorrow.

[16:04] Hart Zhao: nice halo by the way..