RE: [dvd-discuss] Postage Meters and the "Right to Tinker"

[microlenz(at)earthlink.net]

On 9 Jan 2003 at 17:01, Richard Hartman wrote:

Subject:        	RE: [dvd-discuss] Postage Meters and the "Right to Tinker"
Date sent:      	Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:01:29 -0800
From:           	"Richard Hartman" <hartman@onetouch.com>
To:             	<dvd-discuss@eon.law.harvard.edu>
Send reply to:  	dvd-discuss@eon.law.harvard.edu

> Fine ... then the "work" embodied on the CD I recieved in the
> mail is _TurboTax_ , and I have every right to attempt to
> access it, do I not?


I'm not arguing that you don't have the right to access it ("It's a Gift"-a 
W.C.Fields Movie I might add)....In fact, I'm arguing that since the works are 
encrypted they are not copyrighted so the DMCA doesn't even apply. The only 
thing that is copyrighted is the viewable work and all the rest is just legal 
self help in advance of copyright infringement.

The fact is that TurboTax has made a gift of itself to you by sending it in the 
mail. They know that or should since they can afford to hire members of the bar 
in good standing. But TurboTax has decided to put conditions on this gift and 
also not allow you to refuse this gift. As far as I'm concerned too bad for 
TurboTax (I don't plan on using it this year anywise. Last years version 
sucked.)

> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -Richard M. Hartman 
> hartman@onetouch.com 
> 
> 186,000 mi/sec: not just a good idea, it's the LAW! 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael A Rolenz [mailto:Michael.A.Rolenz@aero.org]
> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:33 PM
> To: dvd-discuss@eon.law.harvard.edu
> Subject: RE: [dvd-discuss] Postage Meters and the "Right to Tinker"
> 
> 
> 
> This sort of argument that the viewable copy is a derivative work is on the same
> level as the legal community arguing whether or not a temporary copy in RAM,
> cache, or in the temp directory is a copy for the purposes of infringement... 
> 
> The WORK is copyrighted not the medium. Not the representation.  I would argue
> that a scrambled version cannot be copyrighted since it has no information to
> communicate. (Promoting progress through the transmission of random bits?) 
> 
> 
> 
>  "Richard Hartman" <hartman@onetouch.com> 
> Sent by: owner-dvd-discuss@eon.law.harvard.edu 
> 
> 
> 01/09/2003 11:35 AM 
> Please respond to dvd-discuss 
> 
> 
> 
>         To:        <dvd-discuss@eon.law.harvard.edu> 
>         cc:         
>         Subject:        RE: [dvd-discuss] Postage Meters and the "Right to
>         Tinker"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the viewable "Die Hard" is a derivative work
> of the scrambled version on the DVD, and I only
> own the scrambled version without the right to
> create a derivative work (the viewable version)
> unless I have a player licensed by the DVD-CCA?
> 
> -- 
> -Richard M. Hartman
> hartman@onetouch.com
> 
> 186,000 mi/sec: not just a good idea, it's the LAW!
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jeremy Erwin [mailto:jerwin@ponymail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:58 AM
> > To: dvd-discuss@eon.law.harvard.edu
> > Subject: Re: [dvd-discuss] Postage Meters and the "Right to Tinker"
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 01:29  PM, John Zulauf wrote:
> > 
> > > Sham Gardner wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> In the case of TurboTax, you are not using the data they 
> > sent you to 
> > >> obtain
> > >> services they would otherwise charge for. You are using 
> > information 
> > >> they
> > >> have already sent you, *without* extracting any additional 
> > goods or 
> > >> services
> > >> from them.
> > >
> > > You are making good and valuable use of the software, a right not
> > > granted without the authorization of the copyright holder.  They 
> > > haven't
> > > sent you (without circumvention) sufficient information to use
> > > TurboTax.  You are extracting the a right to use without 
> > payment to the
> > > rights holder.  Circumvention changes the disk from a coaster to a
> > > useful valuable product, and a replacement good for any 
> > full version of
> > > the software.  This is right to license is the "good or 
> > service" of the
> > > software company, and circumventing (prior to first sale) infringes 
> > > this
> > > right.
> > >
> > > Can we agree that the TurboTax keyware disk mailed to 
> > Richard is not 
> > > the
> > > complete product as-is?  One must add authorization "sauce" (true or
> > > forged) to make it so. The unsolicited good is only the 
> > installer disk
> > > "as-is" (and not a functioning copy of TurboTax).   The clearly one
> > > would be defrauding the company of remuneration for  the 
> > "right to use"
> > > a full copy. (RTU's are real products in this industry BTW.)
> > >
> > Let's bring out the GNU argument-- the GPL is based on the (well 
> > accepted) right to control the creation of derivative works-- as long 
> > as the original work remains under copyright, no person may, 
> > except for 
> > parody, commentary, or educational purposes (fair use), create 
> > derivative works without the permission of the copyright holder.
> > 
> > Now, in the case of TurboTax, the application of an authorization 
> > string creates a new derivative work-- as the combined work is very 
> > similar to the original work (TurboTax without key)...
> > 
> > I suppose that if one does not wish to disentangle the FSF, CCA, and 
> > TurboTax, one can always fall back on the old standby-- 
> > copying to the 
> > hard drive is an infringement on their rights, and that the key is 
> > merely a digital signature acknowledging the exchange of 
> > money for the 
> > right to use.
> > 
> > Jeremy
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>