Re: [dvd-discuss] Movie Downloads, automatically illegal?

[Dan Steinberg <synthesis(at)videotron.ca>]

OK. it may be Friday but I'm having a bit of trouble with the following
snippet:
> Let's say, for example, I want to download a VCD of the stand.  Out of the
> goodness of your heart, you want to help me.  We can "legally" get this
> done through the following convoluted but equivilent process:
> 
> 1.  We trade DVDs.
> 2.  You make a backup copy of your DVD in VCD format.
> 3.  We trade back.  Backup copies flow with the original.
> 
> Done.

I have read the rest and I dont get it.  How is this 'more' legal than
simply making a copy yourself?
How is it different from the second sceanario?

Methinks...if making a backup in VCD format for your own use is legal,
then how you get it is irrelevant. you could make a backup on someone
else's computer as long as you get rid of it on the other machine.

what am I missing here?


Tim Neu wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 2 Aug 2002, Kroll, Dave wrote:
> 
> > Tim,
> >
> > I think you're buying into the "License" argument too much:
> >
> > This all makes sense if you accept that when you hand over a Jackson
> > for a DVD, you are buying a "license to view the movie".  If that is the
> > case, I agree that regardless of the condition of the disc, you still own
> > your license.
> >
> > But (IM non-lawyer O) if you stick with the traditional understanding of
> > "Own it on DVD,"  then I think Richard is right.  Once the disc stops
> > working, it's your problem to buy a replacement.  (Although I'm hard
> > pressed to rationally explain why there is a distinction between
> > using a backup copy you made and d/ling a backup from someone else.
> > Perhaps because the person you are downloading from is "distributing".)
> 
> Not necessarily.  As an example, you own "The Stand" on DVD, I do too.
> 
> So far everyone agrees that the DVD itself has the properties of real
> property and follows the normal rules of commerce.  Buy a piece of
> plastic, sell, etc.
> 
> So far everyone also agrees that the owner of a particular copy of a DVD
> has a reasonably established fair use right to make a copy (at least, from
> their own DVD).
> 
> With these two "legal" concepts, you can media-shift from one person's
> copy to another.
> 
> Let's say, for example, I want to download a VCD of the stand.  Out of the
> goodness of your heart, you want to help me.  We can "legally" get this
> done through the following convoluted but equivilent process:
> 
> 1.  We trade DVDs.
> 2.  You make a backup copy of your DVD in VCD format.
> 3.  We trade back.  Backup copies flow with the original.
> 
> Done.
> 
> The same thing could be done in the shorter but equivelent process:
> 
> 1.  You make a copy of your DVD in VCD format.
> 2.  You give that copy to me.
> 
> Any possible media shifting between multiple owners of a work can be done
> by trading and making backup copies.
> 
> So, do we have to do the trade/backup dance for our transfer to be legal?
> 
> > Nevertheless, I think it's a false path to accept.  It's much easier to
> > explain and accept that "You own the DVD.  You can do what you want
> > with it."  Than, "You don't own the DVD, but the DVD is a token for a
> > license
> > to watch the movie.  You can't do everything you want with it, but the
> > licensor is obligated to ensure that you have a useful copy."
> 
> Easier to explain - YES, I would certainly agree.  However, if you claim
> the legal scenario works any way other than an implied license, than how
> do people that go to Wall-Mart and buy The Lord Of the Rings on DVD become
> authorized to watch it?
> 
> How can you buy a movie and NOT the right to use it?
> 
> I'm not stating that the licensor is in any way obligated to ensure that I
> have a useful copy.  I am saying that the licensor should not prevent me
> from making a useful copy, if I own the license.  Kindof like how backups
> work now.  In theory, anyway, IP companies can't prevent me from making a
> copy of the IP (movie, software, music, etc) in case something should make
> the originals unreadable.
> 
> The same should apply to regaining licensed content to replace bad media:
> A retroactive backup, if you will.
> 
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-- 
Dan Steinberg

SYNTHESIS:Law & Technology
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