Re: [dvd-discuss] Movie Downloads, automatically illegal?

[Ronald Austin <ronald(at)caprock-spur.com>]

On Wednesday 31 July 2002 04:39 pm, you wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, Ronald Austin wrote:
> > On Wednesday 31 July 2002 11:38 am, you wrote:
> > > Sorry, I have no sympathy for that kid.
> >
> > Neither do I, he might rent that movie from me if he didn't download it
> > from the internet. I lose a lot of rentals from downloaded or copied
> > movies. If
>
> Does an internet download of a movie automatically gain illegal status?
> We don't need to make the MPAA's argument for them!   Lets take a closer
> look:
>
> Assuming:
> a.  Media shifting is an established fair use
> b.  The right to watch a movie is implicitly granted when a copy of a
> movie is purchased.  (if not, when do all legitimate movie purchasers
> become "authorized"?)
>
> For example, I have a laptop which is a little old.  It does not have a
> DVD drive, but it is still fast enough to play a video file or a VCD.
>
> Now, I happen to own (as an example) Stephen King's "The Stand" on DVD,
> but as I have said my laptop is not capable of playing one.   Converting
> the video myself would be decidedly inconvenient, since the movie is
> nearly 8 hours long.

I wasn't trying to make their case for them, though it may have read that 
way.. This has gone on since VCRs were invented. It's not any worst now than 
in 1990. My real point was that it will hurt the little videostore long 
before it hurts the studios. Pay Per View is killing me now because I simply 
can't compete now days everyone wants to see the same movie on the same day. 
I can't possiably afford that many copies of a movie. I agree that there 
should be fair use, and trading videotapes is even Ok with me. I don't think 
even full scale pirate operations will hurt the studios much if at all.

>
> Is it illegal for me to download the movie from the internet and burn it
> to VCD so that I can watch the movie when I take my laptop camping?
> (assuming the video is viewed in private and is not publicly performed)
>
> Why, or why not?

The MPAA won't agree with me but...

If you paid the MPAA tax no by owning the movie in another format, no.
If it's a public domain movie, no
If it's being offered for download for free or pay, no

Just because it's downloaded from the internet dosen't mean that it's 
illegal,but that isn't what the MPAA wants you to think. I think movies will 
be like MP3s, good advertisement for the studios. (if they don't piss 
everyone off first)

>
> Does the legal status change if I have a DVD drive in the laptop?  At
> home?  What if I just don't want to bring my valuable DVDs with me to a
> public campground?
>
> What if I already wrecked a DVD of mine (leaving it in a hot tent,
> probably), and just want to obtain a replacement copy of a movie I already
> own?
>

This is a problem I have, tapes melted from laying in the sun. Since 1987 I 
have had exactly 1 (one) customer that offered to pay for the ruined tape. I 
usually have to eat the cost. as part of doing business.  I am sure the same 
will go for DVDs. I have always wished I could back-up tapes and rent the 
back-ups and save my originals. I've had movies that lasted only a week on 
the shelf, at $40 - $80  a copy that hurts. Thank god DVDs are sell thru. at 
least for now.

> It seems a little less black and white to me.

It's not black and white and thats the problem, things need to be better 
defined, I just don't want Jack and the MPAA to make that definition.

>
> > people like them they will make a VCD or buy a DVD. Either way I lose,
> > the studios however don't lose much. That kid isn't likely to drive 70
> > miles to watch that movie at the theater and his parents are not going
> > to take him to the movies every week nor are they going to buy every
> > DVD that comes out. I stand here every day and listen to customers say
> > that "so and so bought that DVD I'll just get him to make me a tape of
> > it"... bang, one more rental down the drain.  Copying tapes and DVDs
> > hurt my business.
>
> They may, but that may not make them illegal per se.   The problem in this
> whole thing is that MPAA & RIAA say copying=illegal and everyone believes
> them without even considerting the situation.
>
> Granted, a large number of uses are illegitimate, but so was the copying
> in Sony v. Betamax, and now we have VCR+ codes.

I agree, copying movies for personal use or even passing it along to a friend 
shouldn't be illegal. There are many other things that hurt my business more 
than copied movies. Crummy movies that no one wants to see or re-makes of 
re-makes of .....

Ronald